Sump For Fw (270 Gallon Tank)

[BigFishLover]

Hi there,
I'm getting a 270 gallon tank 72"x36"24" (oddball tank) or might even decide to build it. But anyways, for a tank that size either I buy Eheim external filters ... aka pro 3 2080 which comes to about $1000 after adding up all (4) the filters, or I get a sump. Many members recommended me for a sump, as it would be much easier, safer, and cheaper. I also heard that its possible to build a sump.
Would anyone know how to build a sump for FW? Like the stuff inside it, the pipes and everything. Would it work, or is it better of buying.
Thx for any help.
BFL

 

[dylema]

You can google sump and see what all the marine guys do. The plumbing should be basically the same but the media inside and layout of the sump tank will be different. For example you will not require a deep sand bed or macro algae etc but will probably want sponges/wool and bio media like balls, noodles ets.

 

[andywg]

I run all my FW tanks (and all my SW) tanks off of sumps.

You gain the advantage of a larger sruface area for gas exchange, and notably increase the amount of water, thus making the system more stable.

The general physics of getting the water in and out of the sump is the same as SW. you really want to drill the tank and have an iverflow so the water flows down into the sump and then have it returned by a pump.

Best thing in a large fish tank (rather than planted) is to have a wet dry tower. Have a load of bioballs held above the surface of the water in the sump so that they have access to the oxygen in the air. Then have the water trickle over them.

You could try having a DSB as well to try and deal with nitrates. I plan on integrating a DSB into my 6x2x2 tank's second sump to see how this works, but not until I set up my new reef.

So, to recap, the simplest sump system will go from the hole in the tank -> through some filter floss (to remove physical detritus) -> through a drip tray onto the bioballs -> into a sump tank -> over a baffle (to keep any bubblkes out of the return pump) -> into the return pump and returned to the main tank.

Making a sump is not that hard, though some DIY skills will be necessary.

 

[SkiFletch]

Totally agree with Andy on this one. Just to add, if you're having trouble with concepts or would like to consider some DIY options check out melevsreef.com. Also maybe google "Durso Standpipe" for a good method of setting up a quiet overflow.

 

[BHornsey]

I run all my FW tanks (and all my SW) tanks off of sumps.

Hi Andywg

Have you had any experience with FW planted tanks on sumps?

I've got one. I had a lot of trouble with the overflow gassing off CO2 but with some helpful advice from plantbrain I managed to improve it no end. It's still not one hundred percent though.

I just recently altered the standpipe so that it follows a 'Durso' design. That improved gas retention greatly (I was able to reduce the CO2 bubble rate by half) but I'd like to improve it further. If you have, how have you arranged your standpipe and sump to minimise disturbance?

Brian

 

[BigFishLover]

K quick question,
before i buy my tank, i should make sure that it has an overflow box/hole for the sump correct? And for a FW sump it is neccesary to get a return pump, as it is in any sump correct?
Just wanted to clarify a couple of things.
Thx for any help.

 

[BHornsey]

K quick question,
before i buy my tank, i should make sure that it has an overflow box/hole for the sump correct? And for a FW sump it is neccesary to get a return pump, as it is in any sump correct?
Just wanted to clarify a couple of things.
Thx for any help.

Hi, yeah everything sounds OK.

If the tank is empty (or being built) then it can be drilled for the standpipe. I had mine built with a weir around it.
I'm not sure of the exact flow rates but you may want to check the pipe diameter requirements for a tank that size. I might be wrong but I think it's ususally twice feed pipe diameter. There's plenty of knowledgeable people here to confirm that.

The return pump is best in the sump, assuming the sump will be below the tank? Is it a fish only or planted tank?

 

[BigFishLover]

K quick question,
before i buy my tank, i should make sure that it has an overflow box/hole for the sump correct? And for a FW sump it is neccesary to get a return pump, as it is in any sump correct?
Just wanted to clarify a couple of things.
Thx for any help.

Hi, yeah everything sounds OK.

If the tank is empty (or being built) then it can be drilled for the standpipe. I had mine built with a weir around it.
I'm not sure of the exact flow rates but you may want to check the pipe diameter requirements for a tank that size. I might be wrong but I think it's ususally twice feed pipe diameter. There's plenty of knowledgeable people here to confirm that.

The return pump is best in the sump, assuming the sump will be below the tank? Is it a fish only or planted tank?

Fish only tank. How many gallons should the sump be for a 270 gal tank?

 

[SkiFletch]

As big as is convenient to house your filtration. There's no real 100% answer on this one. A lot depends on where you're gonig to have the sump (in stand, in wall, basement, another room, garage) and the resulting space constrictions, AND, will the tank be big enough to house the filtration you plan on having.

 

[andywg]

Hi Andywg

Have you had any experience with FW planted tanks on sumps?

I've got one. I had a lot of trouble with the overflow gassing off CO2 but with some helpful advice from plantbrain I managed to improve it no end. It's still not one hundred percent though.

I just recently altered the standpipe so that it follows a 'Durso' design. That improved gas retention greatly (I was able to reduce the CO2 bubble rate by half) but I'd like to improve it further. If you have, how have you arranged your standpipe and sump to minimise disturbance?

Brian

I tried very briefly to do planted with sumps, but it is very hard, you are constantly fighting the CO2 off gassing. I then realised I wanted to keep a fish tank and not a plant tank so converted the sump to wet dry, ignored any care for the plants and bought bigger and better fish.

sumps and plants can be done. One of my racked tanks grows plants really well (though the tank underneath on the same system doesn't ). I know ol' Takeshi Amano has done a couple of his classic planted tanks and you can see the overflows in the corners.

Fish only tank. How many gallons should the sump be for a 270 gal tank?

A safe rule of thumb is to ensure you have 10% of the display tank's volume in biological media space. So ideally you would want around 27 gallons of media. This can be lessened if you go for a trickle tower as the media holds a higher more efficient colony of bacteria.

On my 150 gallon tank I have two 24 gallon tanks, though one is now pretty redundant with the addition of a trickle tower.

 

[BigFishLover]

Fish only tank. How many gallons should the sump be for a 270 gal tank?

A safe rule of thumb is to ensure you have 10% of the display tank's volume in biological media space. So ideally you would want around 27 gallons of media. This can be lessened if you go for a trickle tower as the media holds a higher more efficient colony of bacteria.

On my 150 gallon tank I have two 24 gallon tanks, though one is now pretty redundant with the addition of a trickle tower.

How much gph do you get by having 2 24 gallon tanks in your 150. For a 270 gal i would need 1350 gph (i believe) meaning a sump with 1350 gph. How would you increase/decrease the gph in a sump?
Again thx everyone for helping me out here. I really appreciate it.

BFL

 

[BHornsey]

How much gph do you get by having 2 24 gallon tanks in your 150. For a 270 gal i would need 1350 gph (i believe) meaning a sump with 1350 gph. How would you increase/decrease the gph in a sump?
Again thx everyone for helping me out here. I really appreciate it.

GPH is dictated by the return pump and plumbing, not sump size.
I think, for most fish tanks, you try for a turnover of three times tank volume every hour, though again it's not a hard & fast rule.
So your 270 UK Gall is around 1225 L, so you need to aim for 3500 - 4000 Lph pump.

The size of the sump is limited by
1) available space
2) size of your wallet!

Don't forget to allow an airspace at the top of the sump. When the pump stops you inevitably get a back syphon and the sump fills a little until it finds the anti-syphon hole on your return pipe. You don't want wet floors
Mine is around 30 gallons but I only 20 gallons of water in it

 

[BigFishLover]

So ideally you would want around 27 gallons of media. This can be lessened if you go for a trickle tower as the media holds a higher more efficient colony of bacteria.
On my 150 gallon tank I have two 24 gallon tanks, though one is now pretty redundant with the addition of a trickle tower.

What's a trickle tower? And i was setting up a sketch yesterday/today, and im just really confused on what would go in a sump. Like i understand in a sw there would be a refugium, and small things like different rocks and invertabrates. In FW all i can think of is bioballs and a heater ... there's gotta be something else that I can put in the sump.
Again guys thanks for all the help, really been appreciated.

BFL

 

[andywg]

A trickle tower is an enclosed area that holds bio balls and has water trickle over the balls, rather than them being submerged in the sump. It allows the bacteria a much greater access to oxygen.

All I have in my sump tanks is heaters, bioballs, some filter floss for mechanical filtration (sitting above the trckle tower) and a load of spare media in the sump so I can set up a tank at a moment's notice (or donate it to new members of the forum).

 

[fishnterrapins]

Sorry to butt in, these Bio - Balls, one of the websites I've been looking at has them submerged in the water of the sump where the water in is. Do they need to be above the water level and have water constantly flowing through them? If so how do you go about doing that?