Sudden death

[david_e]

Hi All
I have a 250 liters tropical tank that has been running for about 10 years. About 2 weeks ago I added 4 Siamese algae eaters from another tank who proceed to nip the tail fin of a torpedo barb so I'm afraid they went.

As a bit of belt and braces I added a treatment of Interpet Anti fungus and finrot treatment to cover the barb who had had it's tail fin nipped about 5 days ago and everything seemed fine. However yesterday the barb died. Today the water looks a bit cloudy and the rest of the fish have also died.

Water test as follows
NH3 0
pH 6.5
NO3 10
NO2 0.25 (gone up but not enough to wipe out everything that quickly)

Any ideas??

David

 

[Byron]

There are some possibles to explain this.

Did the SAE come from one of your own tanks, or somewhere else? It is possible they introduced some issue (unseen internal protozoan is foremost) that has spread. I have seen this a couple times with fish from stores, hence my question. It may have nothing to do with the supposed fin rot.

On the finrot, I personally would not have treated the tank with anything, having removed the offending fish. Nipped fins generally re-grow unless they are removed as far as onto the caudal peduncle (in the case of caudal fins), and clean water and avoiding stress as much as possible is the best treatment. Adding any product to the water will cause stress to all fish, regardless. Manufacturers may say this or that is safe, but the fact remains that any substance added to the water gets inside the fish and depending upon the substance and the level this generally will cause some stress, which while not sufficient to kill the fish (usually) will still be another factor in their weakening state. Usually, when the substance is something that is necessary, this offsets the detrimental effect.

The SAE likely stressed out all the fish, just by being present in a confined space. Even if no physical interaction occurs (like the fin nip), the fish are sending out chemical signals (pheromones and allomones) and other fish read these and can be severely stressed by aggressive signals. And such would be certain when the fish are physically aggressive as well.

Nitrite at 0.2 is significant and this will affect fish. This may have been caused by the substance added...I have searched around for the ingredients and can't find anything, which always bothers me. But I have myself used treatments that somehow messed around with the bacteria, and since this product is supposedly meant to kill bacteria causing the finrot and such, it is conceivable it did so with the nitrifiers. The cloudy water would support my reasoning.

Now the fish are all deceased, I would do some major water changes, replace the filter pads and thoroughly wash the hard media under the tap to remove whatever may be present from the treatment.

The SAE (species is most likely Crossocheilus atrilimes) are classed as "generally peaceful" but the fish does have an aggressive streak which is why it needs a group (your four should have handled this). Being moved to a new environment may have set this off, for reasons best known to the fish themselves. But it happens. They generally do well with the more robust fish like barbs.

Byron.

 

[david_e]

Hi
Thanks for that. The active ingredient is Phenoxyethanol 4000mg/100ml

Wikipedia says that:

Phenoxyethanol is used as a perfume fixative; an insect repellent; an antiseptic; a solvent for cellulose acetate, dyes, inks, and resins; a preservative for pharmaceuticals, cosmetics and lubricants; an anesthetic in fish aquaculture; and in organic synthesis.

The anesthetic in fish is a bit worrying!!

 

[nic1]

What fin rot treatment did you use?
I am just wondering if the treatments used were OK to use together?

 

[nic1]

Also, just adding to what Byron said, I would add some activated carbon to filter out the meds along with massive water changes.

 

[Essjay]

There was a post on this forum some years ago with a list of active ingredients in various medications. I copied the list and saved it. I realise that the medications could well have different ingredients by now but the list included

"Number 8 (Anti Fungus and Finrot) by Interpet
Phenoxyethanol (40%)"

And in answer to nic1, the finrot medication and the fungus medication are the same thing. Interpet No. 8 treats both.

 

[nic1]

haha! oh ok! When he said 'and' that threw me! Ive never used the interpet products.

 

[NickAu]

IMO

In most cases fin rot medication is a crock of s....t and a waste of money, Fin rot is a direct result of poor water conditions.

To treat fin rot all you need is lots of clean De chlorinated water thats the right temp for the fish and good quality food.