Strange Ph Problem

[Darius]

Hi

I have had my tank a good few months now (Rio 180), I bought it second hand and it was cycled and stocked already.

Everything is fine except for my PH levels...

It is sitting at PH 6 at the most, my test doesn't go any lower than that. I would like it to be about 6.8. My tapwater is PH 7.4.

It had 2 very large pieces of bogwood in it, so I read that they make the water more acidic, I took them out and thought that the PH would go up slowly as I did regular water changes, but it didn't.

The only other thing I could think of was the gravel (It's the normal common gravel you see in a lot of tanks), because it had a heck of a lot of dirt in it, The guy who owned the tank before hardly ever cleaned it out.

I took out the fish and kept about 35% of the tank water, cleaned the gravel and cleaned the tank - put everything back and put in the tank water and treated tap water, I tested the PH it was about 6.4.

So as not to stress the fish which were in a bucket of tank water, I added the new tank water to the bucket to gradually help them adjust to the higher PH.

I put them back in and they are all fine.

Next day Itested the tank PH back PH of 6 MAX! (could be less like I said my test only tests down as far as 6).

What could possibly be making my water more acidic? I really want to move the PH up so it suits my fish better and so I can buy fish that require a higher PH value.

Any ideas, I would rather not use PH chemicals but acheive it naturally.

Thanks

David

 

[dthoffsett]

Do you have a test kit to check for KH (carbonate hardness). KH buffers your water to keep your PH stable, my guess would be that you have a higher PH from the tap (obviously) but very low KH, which would explain why it keeps dropping.

If this is the case, probably the easiest thing you can do is to add some crushed coral to a filter bag or clean (new, never washed) nylon stocking and place it in your filter. You'll want to start with a fairly small amount and gradually add more if needed, you'll want to do this slowly as it seems large swings in KH can be more detrimental than PH swings.

 

[Darius]

Do you have a test kit to check for KH (carbonate hardness). KH buffers your water to keep your PH stable, my guess would be that you have a higher PH from the tap (obviously) but very low KH, which would explain why it keeps dropping.

If this is the case, probably the easiest thing you can do is to add some crushed coral to a filter bag or clean (new, never washed) nylon stocking and place it in your filter. You'll want to start with a fairly small amount and gradually add more if needed, you'll want to do this slowly as it seems large swings in KH can be more detrimental than PH swings.

Thanks for the reply. I don't have a KH test, but now I soon will, glad to have a sensible idea of why it was happening.

Any idea where to get crushed coral? (newbie or what!)

Thanks

David

 

[rl4400]

Any idea where to get crushed coral?
David
[/quote]


Try your pet store. Sometimes they have the oddest things for aquariums.

 

[dthoffsett]

You can usually find crushed coral in the marine section, I think it comes in fairly large bags so you might try posting in the Wanted section to see if maybe someone has some to spare.

 

[Darius]

You can usually find crushed coral in the marine section, I think it comes in fairly large bags so you might try posting in the Wanted section to see if maybe someone has some to spare.

Thanks for the advice I'm looking forward to sorting this out.

Is baking soda an option or is that only a temporary fix?

Thanks again

David

 

[waterdrop]

Its correct that you may want to use crushed coral to raise your KH/pH a bit considering what you've described but its a momentous decision in the life of your tank maintenance because anytime you decide to proceed into the future with a base alteration from what the tap water is, you gain a lot of responsibility that can seem ok for a while but eventually cause trouble when a time period comes up when the alteration is somehow not maintained.

You sound to be kind of borderline for this and another factor will be the type of fish you have. If you have a mostly Amazonian collection, say fish like Angels and Neons/Cardinals for instance, that prefer soft/acid water, then your situation might not be too bad without the CC possibly. If you make your weekly water changes in the 60% range or perhaps to a couple of changes a week not quite that big, the fresh tap water will give you a lot of things. It will raise that small buffer and raise pH, add some calcium and of course remove all the hundreds of things we don't know about, as a water change is supposed to do.

When you get a tank like this that's not been gravel cleaned as much as you'd like, you need to give it some time, I think, for your more frequent gravel cleans and water changes to gradually have a good effect on it. And that's all I'm saying, to give it some time, record and post what the KH does for a while and then decide a bit later. The advice about how to use the CC is excellent. You start will a small pile in your palm in a bag in a filter tray just as said. It should be removed at each filter cleaning and rinsed under a running tap (unlike other media!) in an effort to get the black debris and bacteria off of it so that it will continue to slowly dissolve.

Crushed Coral is found usually in large heavy plastic bags at the LFS (its a product used much more by salt water aquarists) and is actually broken up sea shells as much as it is broken coral.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[drobbyb]

I have to echo what waterdrop said. This decision must be made very carefully and thoughtfully. I run crushed coral in my tanks due to a KH readimg of 0 and I must not be late on my maintenance. You see it takes time for the minerals to dissolve. The full effect may not be seen for 2 full weeks.

We aren't aiming to raise your pH or KH, we are aiming to keep your pH from crashing. So as you can see the waterchanges are important and should not be missed if at all possible. If you miss one the minerals will continue to dissolve and they will build up in your tank resulting in a raised KH and pH. If you were to do a large waterchange at this point you would subject your fish to shock (mainly due to the difference in hardness).

It's a double edged sword.

 

[waterdrop]

I have to echo what waterdrop said. This decision must be made very carefully and thoughtfully. I run crushed coral in my tanks due to a KH readimg of 0 and I must not be late on my maintenance. You see it takes time for the minerals to dissolve. The full effect may not be seen for 2 full weeks.

We aren't aiming to raise your pH or KH, we are aiming to keep your pH from crashing. So as you can see the waterchanges are important and should not be missed if at all possible. If you miss one the minerals will continue to dissolve and they will build up in your tank resulting in a raised KH and pH. If you were to do a large waterchange at this point you would subject your fish to shock (mainly due to the difference in hardness).

It's a double edged sword.

That was really well written. You are really better at this stuff than me! I did not really draw the difference that in the OP's case its all about not crashing, not about raising pH!

I sometimes think you and I must have nearly the same water and are a bit of a case study in trying the two different routes. My tap water tests as KH=0 or KH=1 and pH maybe 7.4 or 7.6 or so. When I perform my weekly water change my pH, I believe, rises from about 6.6 to 7.4 or so. The KH might rise from 0 to 1 if I can even tell that difference. I have a bag of CC standing by but have never quite been able to make myself take the plunge because I know I will sometimes miss weekend water changes due to kid activities! My fish are mostly ones that like soft/acid water and seem to be thriving but I sometimes wonder about what I'm subjecting them to during the water changing. Its also tempting to see how much the plants would like getting a little increased hardness as I think having a few more minerals might be a bigger factor for tanks that don't have CO2 as opposed to those that do. Its so tempting...

~~waterdrop~~

 

[drobbyb]

Thank you! I don't know if I'm better at this than you are though. I can only pass along what information I have collected through experience and reading.

We really do have close to the same water. My water comes out of the tap at pH 6.8 and KH of 0. It's really a good thing though because I have learned alot and can help others with their struggle.

Honestly though, I should be breeding discus with the water I have. It would be perfect (of course I'd have to convinve the wife, but I don't think she'd be too keen on it as she has asked me to scale down).