Stop the Madness

[AbbeysDad]

Some time ago I came across a FB forum where a fellow posted a picture of his 55g tank with three (3) large canister filters underneath. I created a name calling firestorm when I suggested he was over filtering.

But last night I was surfing on YouTube and came across an indoor 300g goldfish pond (a 300g Rubermade stock tank). This young lady has a Fluval FX6 canister filter. two (2) large Sunsun canister filters, two (2) large sponge filters, and a pond filter!!!

She gets the award for over filtering. Still shaking my head.

 

[Retired Viking]

Sound like a waste of money that could be used to improve the lives of their fish in other ways.

 

[AbbeysDad]

It's another misconception in the hobby. Novice hobbyists often don't understand that filters don't 'clean' the water, they just help is look clearer. Some buy (sometimes oversized) filters (or like above, multiple filters) thinking it will make the water more pure. I've seen some posts and videos of canister filter cleaning after running sometimes for months and they're like a cesspool! In the absence of routine maintenance, these filters merely trap detritus where it decomposes and pollutes the water....sometimes just becoming a nitrate factory. Much better to get the crud out of the system.

 

[Retired Viking]

I use an under-gravel filter or a small hang on the back of the tank filter for my tanks. Filters and all the replacement cartridges are big money makers for the people who sell them and make them. Live plants and water changes is what really improves water quality.

 

[Back in the fold]

I use an under-gravel filter or a small hang on the back of the tank filter for my tanks. Filters and all the replacement cartridges are big money makers for the people who sell them and make them. Live plants and water changes is what really improves water quality.

I remember when the under gravel filter was cutting edge technology. All I ever had was inside box filters with the really old style fiberglass filter floss that would stick in your hands like needles. Anybody remember that stuff ? All I use now is a sponge filter. Most power filters are too powerful. @AbbeysDad I fully agree with you but you just can't fix stupid.

 

[Retired Viking]

Yes, I remember those. I had two of those fiberglass filters for awhile, my other 4 tanks had under gravel.

 

[Paul78]

Some time ago I came across a FB forum where a fellow posted a picture of his 55g tank with three (3) large canister filters underneath. I created a name calling firestorm when I suggested he was over filtering.

But last night I was surfing on YouTube and came across an indoor 300g goldfish pond (a 300g Rubermade stock tank). This young lady has a Fluval FX6 canister filter. two (2) large Sunsun canister filters, two (2) large sponge filters, and a pond filter!!!

She gets the award for over filtering. Still shaking my head.

Sorry to but in on the conversation,
But I’m interested in the topic.
Basically I’m new to all this and about to buy a tank and do not want to make these mistakes.
I’m buying a Fluval Roma 240 and it comes with a 306 external filter with carbon bags and bio max media and a foam pad and that’s under the tank sits in the cabinet.
Should I just stick to that or is this filter not so good?

 

[AbbeysDad]

Yeah, back in the day, the under gravel filter was very popular...And why not, extremely effective and very inexpensive. Then power filters came along (and now canisters) and they the popularity reduced. Frankly, the UGF is great as long as sufficient gravel vacuuming is done to remove excess waste. But like any filter, if not maintained, trouble is soon to follow. The other potential problem is with rooted plants that may prevent the best management of the gravel above the UGF. But otherwise, the UGF is great.
------
I also have a problem with cartridge HOB filters. A marketing cash cow for manufacturers (like the razor you get for free, with high priced blades...or the inexpensive printer, with high priced ink cartridges). Replace the cartridge every month or so and toss the BB in the garbage?!?!
------
And then there's the high priced bio-media made of plastic, ceramic, or rocks (like pumice). The claim that there is more surface area. I tell you it's marketing genius. They've convinced well meaning hobbyists that this media is required. But there are a couple of truths they wouldn't want us to know...

1) Sponge material is not only an excellent mechanical filter, but (finer) bio-sponge has acres of surface area, it's inexpensive, cleans easily, and lasts nearly forever. Evidence: Most large fish rooms run on air driven sponge filters!

2) There is many more times the surface area in and on the substrate than you will find in any filter/filter media!

[end rant] <grins>

 

[Paul78]

Yeah, back in the day, the under gravel filter was very popular...And why not, extremely effective and very inexpensive. Then power filters came along (and now canisters) and they the popularity reduced. Frankly, the UGF is great as long as sufficient gravel vacuuming is done to remove excess waste. But like any filter, if not maintained, trouble is soon to follow. The other potential problem is with rooted plants that may prevent the best management of the gravel above the UGF. But otherwise, the UGF is great.
------
I also have a problem with cartridge HOB filters. A marketing cash cow for manufacturers (like the razor you get for free, with high priced blades...or the inexpensive printer, with high priced ink cartridges). Replace the cartridge every month or so and toss the BB in the garbage?!?!
------
And then there's the high priced bio-media made of plastic, ceramic, or rocks (like pumice). The claim that there is more surface area. I tell you it's marketing genius. They've convinced well meaning hobbyists that this media is required. But there are a couple of truths they wouldn't want us to know...

1) Sponge material is not only an excellent mechanical filter, but (finer) bio-sponge has acres of surface area, it's inexpensive, cleans easily, and lasts nearly forever. Evidence: Most large fish rooms run on air driven sponge filters!

2) There is many more times the surface area in and on the substrate than you will find in any filter/filter media!

[end rant] <grins>

I starting to realise this as I go on.
The fish room I’ve visited has sponge filters in side the tank and clearly seem fine.
And I am planting the tank so may look at a different tank which I can use a sponge filter on.
The information is greatly appreciated

 

[Retired Viking]

Totally agree with you @AbbeysDad , it is all a marketing ploy. I install a 2nd under-gravel in my 40 Gallon tank I am working on. I have read about the plant root issue and there are several hobbyist who have reported no problems depending on the type of plants and thickness of gravel. I have avoided plants with major root systems . I also plan on a bio-sponge as a backup and also will be installing one in my 3rd tank (if the wife is happy) That is going to be a 10 gallon tank. Bio-sponge is a simple and effective system and very inexpensive.

 

[AbbeysDad]

Sorry to but in on the conversation,
But I’m interested in the topic.
Basically I’m new to all this and about to buy a tank and do not want to make these mistakes.
I’m buying a Fluval Roma 240 and it comes with a 306 external filter with carbon bags and bio max media and a foam pad and that’s under the tank sits in the cabinet.
Should I just stick to that or is this filter not so good?

I can't speak first hand about the Fluval 306 canister filter except to say that Fluval has earned it's place as decent filter. I will say that the Fluval filters seem a bit over priced to me.
I don't use carbon in any filters and would only ever use it if I needed to remove any meds from the water. I have plants in all my tanks and carbon adsorbs and removes nutrients that the plants would use to grow. With one exception, I do not use commercial bio-medias. Instead, all of my filters contain (coarse, medium, and fine) sponge material. I believe that bio-sponge is a better bio-media.

 

[Retired Viking]

I starting to realise this as I go on.
The fish room I’ve visited has sponge filters in side the tank and clearly seem fine.
And I am planting the tank so may look at a different tank which I can use a sponge filter on.
The information is greatly appreciated

I have a box full of carbon filter cartridges still in the bags, I keep them to remove medication. The local fish stores will try and sell you on filters and once you buy one they have you hooked buying expensive replacement cartridges. Regular water changes and live plants is a better way to go. Get the sponge bio filter.

 

[AbbeysDad]

I have a box full of carbon filter cartridges still in the bags, I keep them to remove medication. The local fish stores will try and sell you on filters and once you buy one they have you hooked buying expensive replacement cartridges. Regular water changes and live plants is a better way to go. Get the sponge bio filter.

We're 'told' not only that we need a filter, but it has to be 4x to 10x gallons per hour flow rate relative to tank size...
Lucas Bretz (LRB Aquatics) is a YouTuber with as many as 400 tanks...and few if any filters!!! Plants and water changes is his way (and with 400 tanks, water changes are not as frequent or as much as you might think.)

We're also led to believe that beneficial biology only lives in the filter in their expensive and special bio-medias.

It's all marketing genius behind lies I tell you - stop the madness! <grins>

 

[Essjay]

The Fluval 306 has a water polishing pad and carbon in the top basket; biomax in the middle basket and biofoam in the bottom basket. If the baskets are all the same shape, you could always get extra biofoam for all three baskets. They would only need to be washed by squeezing in old tank water so you'd only have the initial outlay for 2 extra sponges rather than buying a new filter, or a new filter and air pump if you were to use sponge filters.

 

[seangee]

Sorry to but in on the conversation,
But I’m interested in the topic.
Basically I’m new to all this and about to buy a tank and do not want to make these mistakes.
I’m buying a Fluval Roma 240 and it comes with a 306 external filter with carbon bags and bio max media and a foam pad and that’s under the tank sits in the cabinet.
Should I just stick to that or is this filter not so good?

I had a 406 for about 15 years and it was a cracking filter. Nothing wrong with the media as supplied, so you could replace with a sponge or just use what you got for free. I can't remember if it originally came with carbon, but if it did you may as well put a sponge in its place - or filter foam, or even just spread out the ceramic more.