Still need help..no responses...angelfish bloating only at night along with fin damage/rot?

Navfish

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I have a juvenile angelfish who lives in a 37g tank and he is living with none aggressive neon tetras, candy cane tetras, snails, and some guppies. They don't bite or nip at my angelfish's fins nor does he. However, after quarantining my angelfish and curing my fish with General Cure because he wasn't eating, I noticed that once he was in the main tank, he was getting bloated every night to the point where he can't swim and struggled. However, he seems to be fine every morning, not struggling or bloated. This is happening constantly ever since last week and I am confused. He has also since then shown signs of fin rip or fin rot which I asked about in another thread. (the fin damage doesn't seem to spread yet...)

Also-VERY IMPORTANT-he is gasping for air constantly day and night even though there is so much aeration (2 bubblers + filter). He doesn't seem to stop even after I did a water change. I assumed it could be because of the pH but he didn't do before I quarantined him for his other illness so IDK. I have been trying to reduce the amount of food. Should I fast him for 3-4 days?

For example I checked at 10:50 pm tonight and he is bloated, struggling to swim at the surface (sometimes sideways)

To sum up:
-bloated and can't swim because of it ONLY at night
-gasping for air day and night
-still eating
-a little fin rot or rip? (in other thread)

Here is some general info:
Tank
What is the water volume of the tank?
37g

How long has the tank been running?
2 months

Does it have a filter?
yes

Does it have a heater?
yes

What is the water temperature?
79 degrees

What is the entire stocking of this tank? (Please list all fish and inverts.)
-1 Angelfish
-4 Candy Cane tetras
-4 mollies
-3 guppies
-6 neon tetras

Maintenance
How often do you change the water?
once a week

How much of the water do you change?
50%

What do you use to treat your water?
tetra dechlorinator

Do you vacuum the substrate or just the water?
Every 2 weeks I gravel clean

*Parameters - Very Important
Did you cycle your tank before adding fish?
yes
What do you use to test the water?
API freshwater Master Kit
What are your parameters? We need to know the exact numbers, not just “fine” or “safe”.
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 40 (I know terrible but just did 50% water change)
pH: 7.5

Feeding
How often do you feed your fish?
1 or 2 times a day

How much do you feed your fish?
small amounts -a pinch

What brand of food do you feed your fish?
tetra flakes and Fluval bites

Do you feed frozen?
bloodworms but haven't fed in over a month

Do you feed freeze-dried foods?
not anymore

Illness & Symptoms
How long have you had this fish?
a month and a half

How long ago did you first notice these symptoms?
last week

In a few words, can you explain the symptoms?
-bloating (only at night)
-struggling to swim (only at night)
-fin rot or fin rip? (Not too sure yet- but it is in other thread)
Have you started any treatment for the illness?
No
Was your fish physically ill or injured upon purchase?
No, but he seemed like a runt

How has its behavior and appearance changed, if at all?
No change in behavior, still eats.


Down below are the first time I saw him bloated- this was taken at night and I thought it was bacterial infection, however, he was fine the next morning when I went to check. Thought this was a one time thing but has happened most nights (with the exception of 1).
 

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Uberhoust

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Right off I will say I have no idea what is wrong with him, but it is clear from the very tight clamping of his fins that he is not doing well. Hopefully someone with more disease experience will pipe up.
 
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Navfish

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Right off I will say I have no idea what is wrong with him, but it is clear from the very tight clamping of his fins that he is not doing well. Hopefully someone with more disease experience will pipe up.
ah still no responses sadly :(
 

Rocky998

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I'm so sorry no one has responded 😕
I can't clarify what is going on as I'm not very experienced...

Maybe @GaryE can help here?
 

Fishmanic

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are there any white spots on its body or even its fins? even one or two spots?
 

Alice B

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hmmmm. that is very odd. I will think on it, maybe something will come to me. (Years ago I did tons of disease research but many of those diseases have been conquered)
 

Uberhoust

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Did some reading on the subject last night but I still unclear what the possibilities are (I don't have personal experience with these issues so take everything with a grain of salt, just talking through the problem).

One possibility is that the fish has a damaged air bladder or a condition that makes the air bladder not reduce the gas volume. During the day the fish swims, and during the night the fish is literally tired from working to maintain his position in the tank all day long, this would cause a lot of stress to the animal which could in turn cause the clamping fins. But, it doesn't explain the bloating.

Another possibility is the bloating is caused by improper digestion of the food, he may eat during the day but again now the bloat starts, and he again is fighting to maintain his position in the tank. He is now tired for two reasons, one to stop floating, and two he has an upset tummy so to speak. Clamped fins are the result. Explains most symptoms but doesn't explain why it is affecting only one fish. If this is the case, there is the possibility of being treated.

Yet another possibility is with some sort of parasite. I really don't know much about fish parasites, so I won't discuss this one further.

Just an observation but in my last angel fish breeding, I ended up with a lot of Albino angels. The albino trait is recessive. My albinos had a number of defects, some of those were structural with some not being able to get off the bottom of the tank and some not able to get below the surface. Many died after the wiggler stage, and all still alive are literally 1/3 the mass of their non albino fry mates. I mention this because you might have a fish that was hatched with the issue you are seeing (similar to the first case I mention) and there is no treating it.

I do hope you find the issue and can treat it.
 
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Hello Navfish, I've been seeking in german aquarium forums just to be able to find answers to your problem, unfortunatelly I can't speak out of my own experience, but I found it seems to be a quite frequent issue on angelfishes, and in most cases people didn't find a clear source of the problem, because that is a bunch of problems all at once, I'll try to mention them one by one a little:

1: As Uberhoust said that can be that the fishes have a weak constitution from the birth on, and that in my opinion may be the most serious cause of all, for which there is no solution.

2: Stress and possibly not optimal husbandry, the fishes need appropiate places at night to sleep, where they can feel sure, such as plants like vallisneria or echinodorus (elongated), or some wood of this kind, and where there is totally darkness, remember that skalars are quite sensitive and need a environment in which they can feel sure and well.

3: Finally is to be mentioned that this issue can be caused by parasites and diseases, and in most of these cases there is few hope to be able to help them, on the other side I've found reports where people have simply improve the feeding of the fishes and they have recover very quikly, only to feed this dry stuff of tetra and so on isn't really a good idea, I'll try that at the first place, you know living food and frozen etc, in one case someone reported that some liquid vitamines for aquarium also helped very well.

I wish you success and don't give up.
 
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Navfish

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Hello Navfish, I've been seeking in german aquarium forums just to be able to find answers to your problem, unfortunatelly I can't speak out of my own experience, but I found it seems to be a quite frequent issue on angelfishes, and in most cases people didn't find a clear source of the problem, because that is a bunch of problems all at once, I'll try to mention them one by one a little:

1: As Uberhoust said that can be that the fishes have a weak constitution from the birth on, and that in my opinion may be the most serious cause of all, for which there is no solution.

2: Stress and possibly not optimal husbandry, the fishes need appropiate places at night to sleep, where they can feel sure, such as plants like vallisneria or echinodorus (elongated), or some wood of this kind, and where there is totally darkness, remember that skalars are quite sensitive and need a environment in which they can feel sure and well.

3: Finally is to be mentioned that this issue can be caused by parasites and diseases, and in most of these cases there is few hope to be able to help them, on the other side I've found reports where people have simply improve the feeding of the fishes and they have recover very quikly, only to feed this dry stuff of tetra and so on isn't really a good idea, I'll try that at the first place, you know living food and frozen etc, in one case someone reported that some liquid vitamines for aquarium also helped very well.

I wish you success and don't give up.

Thank you guys for the detailed responses. I think I narrowed it down to either bloating because he is eating the bladder snails in the tank or something else.

Addressing your second point, I have a lot of plants and wood pieces in my tank where he can hide away from the current. So ruling that one out!

Also, I mentioned that he got bloated last night and was sideways. When I woke up, he was still struggling to swim but then 2 hours later....I come back and see that he is perfectly fine and trying to eat something on the plants.

I think i'm going to starve him for a couple days :)
 
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Navfish

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Thank you guys for the detailed responses. I think I narrowed it down to either bloating because he is eating the bladder snails in the tank or something else.

Addressing your second point, I have a lot of plants and wood pieces in my tank where he can hide away from the current. So ruling that one out!

Also, I mentioned that he got bloated last night and was sideways. When I woke up, he was still struggling to swim but then 2 hours later....I come back and see that he is perfectly fine and trying to eat something on the plants.

I think i'm going to starve him for a couple days :)
Hes fine now!
 

GaryE

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Only feed him in the morning, as a first step. You may have to slowly eliminate possibilities.

I would get some praziquantel (prazi-pro is good and available in the US) and see if maybe he has gutworms. Again, you are a process of elimination of the easy to treat things there.

If it is internal damage, there isn't much you can do. A partial bowel blockage would affect intestinal gas, which goes into the swim bladders. So it could be there. Try a higher fibre food.

Watch his anal vent for little red worms, as a lot of pet store fish come in with nematodes these days. They would need different meds than gutworms - harder to locate. They look like red worms, but are a different family resistant to the basic deworming treatments.

It sounds intestinal. Weakness, an injury, constipation, a growth, a lump of parasitic worms... there are many things that would do that. But the timing is a clue. To what is the mystery.
 

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