Some Info On Metal Toxicity!

[Graeme Edwards]

Heres some interesting info for you all.

Iv been Reading Ecology of a planted aquarium by Diana Walstad.

Metal toxicity in fish, some of the effects of heavy metals in fish are quite interesting and sometimes could be over looked as just fish behavior.
Low levels of heavy metals can effect normal fish behavior such as schooling, feeding, swimming and spawning.

(I'm quoting out of the book just in case i get accused of plagiarism )

*Copper was shown to significantly reduce the swimming performance of rainbow trout.

*Continuous exposure to aluminum decreased the apatite and growth of young trout.

*Metal toxicity is much greater problem in soft, acidic water!

*The worries of acid rain! its known that when the Ph of a lake drops below 5.5 due to acid rain heavy metals like aluminum, cooper and zinc are released from the sediment into the water.

*water hardness its self influences metal toxicity.

*Trout exposed to 1.5ppm of aluminum had a 45% mortality rate in soft water but only 10% in hard-water

*Daphnia exposed to 0.13mg/l of zinc survived less than 10 days in soft water and over 50 days in hard water!

So theres allot to be said for having hard water.

Some times i wish i was still in the bracket of "ignorance is bliss"

Any way just wanted to share that with you, some one i hope will find it interesting ( i did ) if not well i wont bother next time

Graeme.

 

[Siamese Fighter05]

Did they do any tests on saltwater fish?
Just wondering because we have to remove all metals from water with an RO Unit, would be interesting to see if the lack of heavy metals reduced feeding in salty's too

Dan

 

[Bignose]

Wait 'til you get to the part about how dissolved organic carbons (DOCs) help reduce the metal toxicity. Since activated carbons take out DOCs, you'll never even think about using activated carbon again.

Also, did you see the chart that compares copper toxicity in humans versus fish? Humans' level was like 100 or 1000 times as great as that in fish, so you know that the water companies do not worry about it.

 

[Graeme Edwards]

Oh yer, read that part!

Like i seid "ignorance is bliss".

Its a heavy book to read( i dont mean in wight ), i find i have to read a paragraph more than once for all the info to sink in then read it again some time later.
Iv got to be in the rite frame of mind to sit down and read it.

 

[CFC]

I've often warned about the dangers of heavy metals in drinking water supplies, those who dont use a water conditioner take note!!

 

[Jules H-T]

I've often warned about the dangers of heavy metals in drinking water supplies, those who dont use a water conditioner take note!!

You have indeed, to me amongst I am sure many others. Here at least your points have hit home.

I did ask recently whether anyone knew of any products specifically and solely designed to fix heavy metals, but it was buried deep in another thread and I didn't spot a response from anyone. Google has not, on this occasion, been my friend.

 

[Graeme Edwards]

As far as im aware the only thing that can do any good against heavy metals is using RO water.

 

[CFC]

Most good water conditioners will de toxify heavy metals in tapwater but for 100% removal then R/O is needed.

 

[Bloo]

Absolutely - as CFC says, most good dechlorinators (such as API Stress Coat) will detoxify heavy metals as well as remove chlorine and chloramines.

 

[Jules H-T]

I think Bloozoo from looking at the list that Tolak posted recently that it's only about 50% of them that do (API tap water conditioner for example does not- which seems ridiculous since what we're talking about is making our tap water safe for our fish).

The reason I was asking about a specific metal fixing product is that Chlorine is readily removable by evaporation, and my supply is not chloraminated. Therefore do I really need to be adding a load of Sodium Thiosulphate that is just going to sit there, pointlessly?

I know we're talking 100 ppm before it starts becoming even remotely toxic to fish, but still. What is the active ingredient that fixes the heavy metals? It can't be the Sodium Thiosulphate since not all dechlorinators containing it remove metals. Is it not possible to dose just for the metals?

I am keep to find out about this, just so I know. The easy response of "just use dechlorinator that does heavy metals" whilst being fine and possibly the simplest option, is not what I'm looking for.

 

[Saedcantas]

According to this table of dechlorinators The TropTank Dechlorinators topic

Tetra Aquasafe would actually appear to be the most comprehensive, not necessarily the best but does anyone have any thoughts on that?

 

[Bloo]

I think Bloozoo from looking at the list that Tolak posted recently that it's only about 50% of them that do (API tap water conditioner for example does not- which seems ridiculous since what we're talking about is making our tap water safe for our fish).

Are you saying you are under the impression API does not do that ?

Which part of this statement indicates that ?

Instantly removes chlorine and chloramines, making tap water safe for fish. Neutralizes heavy metals.

From this extract:

API Aquarium Stress Coat

Fish Treatment Stress Coat
Instantly removes chlorine and chloramines, making tap water safe for fish. Neutralizes heavy metals. Also, replaces the natural slime coating fish need in times of stress, such as handling, shipping or fighting. Contains Aloe Vera, nature's liquid bandage, to prevent the loss of essential electrolytes and protect damaged tissue against disease-causing organisms. Helps heal torn fins and skin wounds. Use when setting up aquarium, changing water, or adding fish.

Purpose and Benefits:
Stress Coat forms a synthetic slime coating on the skin of fish, replacing the natural secretion of slime that is lost during netting, handling, shipping, fighting and other forms of stress. Stress Coat is a patented water conditioner suitable for fresh and salt water aquariums, water gardens and ponds. Stress Coat contains Aloe Vera, which acts as a liquid bandage, to protect and heal damaged fish tissue. Stress Coat instantly removes chlorine and heavy metals such as copper and zinc from tap water. Stress Coat also removes chloramines by breaking the chlorine-ammonia bond.

The effectiveness of Stress Coat with Aloe Vera has been proven by independent studies conducted at the University of Georgia, School of Veterinary Medicine. Researchers found that Stress Coat helped heal wounds and speed tissue regrowth. Dr John Gratzek summarizes the results: 'Personally, I am satisfied with the results since my initial thoughts were skeptical to say the least. These definite statements can be made without equivocation: Stress Coat in no way harms aquarium fish, alters pH, or affects the biological filter. No ammonia or nitrite was detected in the test aquariums. The results indicated that the Stress Coat formula reduced the wound size compared to untreated fish tissue.' Aloe Vera is high in mucopolysaccharides, an essential component of many tissues and believed to help in the healing process. The glycoproteins Aloctin A and Aloctin B are also present and identified as the probable tissue-healers.

Directions for Use:

Each dose of Stress Coat removes 3.0 ppm chlorine and 0.3 ppm heavy metals.

To protect fish and condition water:

Add two teaspoonfuls (10 ml) for every 10 U.S. gallons of aquarium water.

To remove chlorine and heavy metals and neutralize chloramines:Add one teaspoonful (5 ml) for every 10 U.S. gallons (40 liters) of tap water.

For tropical fish use only. Do not use on fish intended for human consumption.

Compatibility:

Stress Coat can be used with freshwater tropical fish, marine fish, invertebrates and coldwater species including koi and goldfish. Stress Coat will not harm aquatic plants. Stress Coat may cause foaming in marine aquariums using a protein skimmer. Stress Coat will not interfere with water test kits.

1US gallon (3.78 L). Treats 7560 US gallons (28,615 L)

 

[Jules H-T]

I think Bloozoo from looking at the list that Tolak posted recently that it's only about 50% of them that do (API tap water conditioner for example does not- which seems ridiculous since what we're talking about is making our tap water safe for our fish).

Are you saying you are under the impression API does not do that ?

I suspect I have added an element of confusion, I apologise.

In this thread: http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showto...l=dechlorinator
Tolak posted this list: http/www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/rev-cond.htm

Which shows that API tap water conditioner does not remove heavy metals. I was not disagreeing with you about API Stresscoat removing it, it's a different product.

The point I was making was twofold: Intially, it's not safe to say that "most good dechlorinators" remove heavy metals- only some of them do. The second aspect to my point is that if you're Joe Public looking to make your tap water safe, which are you going to go for? Stresscoat, or Tap Water Conditioner?

It would be a very easy mistake (not to mention as far as I can tell a total waste of money if you live in an area whose supply is not chloraminated) to use API Tap Water Conditioner. You're treating for compounds that either evaporate or are not present to start with, and you still leave your fish exposed to heavy metals. If this thread does nothing else it illustrates the importance of recognising that as a purchaser of these products.

So why do they make and sell Tap Water Conditioner? It's misleading to even call it that I think, and suggests that perhaps your money is of more concern than your fish to these producers generally.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This part of the instructions you quoted by the way, puts questions into my mind:

Do not use on fish intended for human consumption.

Why would they say that? Is there a chemical build up of some kind in the tissues of the fish that have lived in water treated by these chemicals?

My historical position has been that I don't need dechlorinator, for reasons I have already touched upon in my previous post. However I've been educated by more experienced fishkeepers that there is a heavy metal issue that we need to take care of, and I'm not too big to admit that and worry about it. It is the only justification that I have been shown for me to use any chemical products at all in my tanks.

What is it that they add to dechlorinators to make it able to fix heavy metals? Why isn't that heavy metal fixer available separately (because it doesn't seem to be)? Are there any chemists here who understand the reactions involved in fixing heavy metals? Are there industrial alternatives not directly intended for aquarium use that can be bought for a fraction of the cost yet are the same chemicals?

Basically, is it possible to reduce the chemicals going into your tank (or be more selectictive about the chemicals going into your tank) yet still make your water safe?

 

[andywg]

Is aluminium really a heavy metal? I know that zinc, lead et al are, but I have always considered aluminium to be a lighter metal. I have never heard Iron referred to as a heavy metal before, and aluminium is certainly lighter than that...

 

[Bloo]

The vast and overwhelming majority of us live in cities where we automatically have all sorts of purifying chemicals pumped into the water to "make it safe for human consumption". The vast and overwhelming majority of people have no idea how to obtain water analysis information from the local supplier (or couldn't be bothered to) - and even if they have that information, how to interpret it. When I contacted my own local supplier (they do not discuss over the phone) I received a wad of paperwork to sift through and try and make head and tail of. Water supplies also constantly change (at least ours do) - how are you going to know what the latest additive is (to make it safer and better for humans but long-term deadly or harmful for our fish?)?
We are all careful about what we use and spray around our households and fishtanks, but there are so many freefloating harmful particles (yes, including second hand smoke) - another reason for me to treat rather than not treat the water.

Working on the odds of the first mentioned, I would err on the side of spending a little bit of money (it's really a pittance) to have peace of mind and remove what may potentially be in the water. At least I do know what's in our water, know how harmful it is to my fish (untreated) and treat accordingly.

Going by this post by Undawada on Hagen Aqua-Plus Water Conditioner (which incidentally seems very similar to API Stress Coat) has a reply from Hagen that says "toxicity tests to 100 x overdose without any problems for the fish", and then goes on with more information.

I'm not advocating pumping more unnecessary chemicals or purifiers into our own tanks - but based on the above, in my opinion it's one case of "rather safe than sorry".