Silver dollar with white discoloration on face and head

[Penelope .R]

He's had this color for a little over a month now. It's mostly around his head and gills but there is a little patch discoloring his tail. It started as a little patch on his tail, I'm not sure when it spread.
I have him quarantined in a 5 gallon bucket currently with a little pump to move the water and a heater, no filtration. I am doing 70% water changes twice daily in the morning and night. I put a tablespoon of aquarium salt in his water and pimafix and melafix.
At the moment he doesn't move much, but will dart around if he sees me walk by or if I am doing something with the tank. He won't eat, even when I offer him Spinach.
Otherwise I'll try to get pictures of him when I can.
Any advice is appreciated

 

[Ichthys]

I’d put it back in its tank asap. It’ll be very stressed in a bucket.

 

[Penelope .R]

I’d put it back in its tank asap. It’ll be very stressed in a bucket.

I can't have him making the rest of the tank sick, and I also don't want to treat the whole tank for something only one fish has. He's in a calm corner with a pump and heater.

 

[FranciscoB]

Whatever it is, bucket life is not going to help. Photos are needed to assess what it might be. In addition, info on the fish history as well as of the aquarium where it was would be necessary. Good luck!

 

[FranciscoB]

Whatever the silver dollar has, probably is in the entire tank where he was. And bucket life is not going to help it anyway.

 

[FranciscoB]

Sorry I was short before. Silver dollars (and most fish) require water of high quality. A bucket (prob. 4-5 gal) will not afford that, particularly with uneaten food. Even though of course the fish needs nutrition to recover, water quality is much more important in the short term. I suggest not to feed in the bucket; it would not eat the food and it would only contribute to deteriorate water quality. It can go quite a while without eating (not suggesting this is good or to starve it), but it would not last long in poor water.
If the fish was for some time in the aquarium, there is little point in isolating it, unless you can provide proper quarters. That is the kind of history that is needed (and photos) to better ascertain what is wrong with it, and how best to care for it and the rest of the tank. Best wishes and good luck!

 

[Penelope .R]

Sorry I was short before. Silver dollars (and most fish) require water of high quality. A bucket (prob. 4-5 gal) will not afford that, particularly with uneaten food. Even though of course the fish needs nutrition to recover, water quality is much more important in the short term. I suggest not to feed in the bucket; it would not eat the food and it would only contribute to deteriorate water quality. It can go quite a while without eating (not suggesting this is good or to starve it), but it would not last long in poor water.
If the fish was for some time in the aquarium, there is little point in isolating it, unless you can provide proper quarters. That is the kind of history that is needed (and photos) to better ascertain what is wrong with it, and how best to care for it and the rest of the tank. Best wishes and good luck!

You're good, and thank you for your input, I appreciate it. I didn't have time for a lengthy post this morning unfortunately but I got some pictures and here is some more information on the tank.
Some information about the tank: it is a 65 gallon tropical community tank, I use a hydor Canister filter for filtration, the media is fully cycled and cleaned monthly to keep the bacteria colonies good. Substrate is play sand and has been in the tank for 2 years now, it's about 2-3 inches throughout and I regularly run a chopstick through it to prevent any gas pockets from getting stuck. Every water change I gravel vac also. Ph stays close to 7, temperature I keep between 75-80 generally.

The reason I switched the fish into the 5 gallon is for water quality. It's not feasible for me to do a water change on the 65 gallon tank all that regularly unfortunately every other day is the best I can manage. But with the bucket I can easily do a water change in the morning and night. There is no filter to avoid filtering out any medications I use, but I'm keeping the water moving for oxidation.
For feeding I've been feeding twice a day and leaving the food for around an hour, then doing the water changes first thing in the morning and before bed and sucking out uneaten food.

I'm making arrangements to move him into a 20 gallon but this is the best I can do for now.
Here are the pictures, notice the white marks on the top of his head and around his gills, as well as the white patch on his tail. Water is low in pictures for the water change.
I should also mention this particular fish is 9 years old and has been with me since he was a tiny little thing.

 

[FranciscoB]

I hope this is helpful. I love silver dollars and have had Metynnis spp. (4 species) for years, and although I also keep other types of fish, these are my favorites. That is why I have taken a personal interest on your fish.
Yours is of the spotted silver dollars, this one Metynnis lippincotianus, one of the most commonly available in the trade. I believe it is a female, but seeing only from above it is hard to tell. SD's are extremely social fish, living in groups with hierarchical structure, and moving around as shoals; they do not do well as single fish, and being alone is by itself a major cause of stress (even for such hardy and assertive fish!). When under suboptimal conditions, they can be very skittish, which often leads to darting around and injuring themselves against the tank or decorations. Under better conditions, they are not skittish, but are certainly active and fast. They are also long lived animals (decades) and are very resilient so often people feel like "I have had it for years (or months) and it has been just fine, only recently......." In reality, the fish has not been fine, but being very resilient, it has taken a long time for negative conditions to show and decline to become evident. Most M. lippincotianus are bred massively in Asia (less commonly in the USA), brought to the USA (and other countries) and sold as babies. Relatively rarely, wild collected fish are available; if so, usually sold larger, more grown up. They are very hardy and adaptable by prefer relatively soft water, lower or hovering around neutral pH (but can take slightly higher), and will not thrive under poorly oxygenated water. Nitrate levels should be low, ideally undetectable. They like places to hide, but also areas to swim freely. Contrary to popular belief, they are NOT strict vegetarians; in fact, they are omnivores who include lots of plant matter (plants, algae, seeds and fruit), but also animal matter (insects, crustaceans, and 'worms'). They do not do best (but sadly will survive) in strictly plant-based diets, and certainly if the plant material is mainly things like lettuce and spinach.

Information about your tank will be necessary, specifically water parameters and characteristics, such as:
pH (you stated about neutral), hardness, temperature (75-80 is fine), and most importantly, typical levels of nitrate (both before and after water changes). In addition, frequency and volume of water changes (% per week or equivalent), number, sizes, and species composition of tank mates. I doubt other fish are directly harassing the silver dollar, as usually they are very assertive. Also frequency, amounts and composition of food items. All of these are likely to inform how to improve conditions, which is the ultimate cause of the problems shown on the fish. In addition, I believe your tank is 65g; is that 48" long", or 36" long? A picture of the full tank will help envision conditions.

Your fish has two completely separate issues, neither of the two is directly contagious to the other fish in your community tank. Regardless, all fish in the tank have been exposed for a long period of time so there is no good reason to keep the SD in the bucket, as that will only contribute to his decline rather than improvement, and will not protect the rest of the tank from something that is already there.

The pitting around the head and gills - This is common in SD's, and is usually caused by stress over extended periods of time, usually associated with suboptimal (or right down poor) conditions. Those may include, i) suboptimal water quality or water characteristics, ii) limited space, iii) living alone (no other dollars), iv) suboptimal diet, and most likely, v) combinations of all those issues plus potentially others. Although not the same thing, this is somewhat analogous to pitting on the head of cichlids, and in the same manner, lessions can become secondarily infected by any of a number of bacteria and or fungus. The condition is reversible, sometimes with minimum scarring, but it will take a concerted effort to improve as many of the potential sources. That means, water quality needs improvement (via water changes), diet modified, ideally suitable tankmates, best more silver dollars (but I realize that can be difficult).

The whitish stuff on the caudal fin, which may also appear sometimes on other fins and then go away temporarily, only to reappear or become larger - This is also very common, and I do not know the proximate cause, but it is always related to suboptimal water quality. I strongly believe the causal agent is either bacterial or fungal, but I feel more strongly about bacterial. It often reduces itself (of even disappears) after a water change, only to reappear. But it is there, if not on the fish, I suspect hiding in the substratum, only to reinfect later. If not addressed, it can result in permanent damage to the fins (and worse), and become secondarily infected with additional bacteria and fungus. It is also almost always reversible, with little permanent damage, if corrected.

Again, neither of the two conditions are directly contagious to the other fish in your tank. They are present in the tank, even if they have not manifested themselves on the other fish, or you may not have notice them. Some fish deal better with long-term stress or water quality than others.
I apologize for the long text, but hopefully it will be helpful to you. In time, if you want suggestions for better food items, I would be happy to address that. Please put (the dollar) back in the tank.
I leave you with photos of some of my dollars, including some M. lippincotianus. Cheers and good luck!

A 75g with 3 spp of Metynnis (only 2 visible). Three fish in the picture are an estimated 24 years of age (20 directly documented)

Some of the same fish in a 125g, 3 spp.

Same tank, 2 years later (last year)

Metynnis fasciatus (tiger dollars) in 75g

 

[Penelope .R]

I hope this is helpful. I love silver dollars and have had Metynnis spp. (4 species) for years, and although I also keep other types of fish, these are my favorites. That is why I have taken a personal interest on your fish.
Yours is of the spotted silver dollars, this one Metynnis lippincotianus, one of the most commonly available in the trade. I believe it is a female, but seeing only from above it is hard to tell. SD's are extremely social fish, living in groups with hierarchical structure, and moving around as shoals; they do not do well as single fish, and being alone is by itself a major cause of stress (even for such hardy and assertive fish!). When under suboptimal conditions, they can be very skittish, which often leads to darting around and injuring themselves against the tank or decorations. Under better conditions, they are not skittish, but are certainly active and fast. They are also long lived animals (decades) and are very resilient so often people feel like "I have had it for years (or months) and it has been just fine, only recently......." In reality, the fish has not been fine, but being very resilient, it has taken a long time for negative conditions to show and decline to become evident. Most M. lippincotianus are bred massively in Asia (less commonly in the USA), brought to the USA (and other countries) and sold as babies. Relatively rarely, wild collected fish are available; if so, usually sold larger, more grown up. They are very hardy and adaptable by prefer relatively soft water, lower or hovering around neutral pH (but can take slightly higher), and will not thrive under poorly oxygenated water. Nitrate levels should be low, ideally undetectable. They like places to hide, but also areas to swim freely. Contrary to popular belief, they are NOT strict vegetarians; in fact, they are omnivores who include lots of plant matter (plants, algae, seeds and fruit), but also animal matter (insects, crustaceans, and 'worms'). They do not do best (but sadly will survive) in strictly plant-based diets, and certainly if the plant material is mainly things like lettuce and spinach.

Information about your tank will be necessary, specifically water parameters and characteristics, such as:
pH (you stated about neutral), hardness, temperature (75-80 is fine), and most importantly, typical levels of nitrate (both before and after water changes). In addition, frequency and volume of water changes (% per week or equivalent), number, sizes, and species composition of tank mates. I doubt other fish are directly harassing the silver dollar, as usually they are very assertive. Also frequency, amounts and composition of food items. All of these are likely to inform how to improve conditions, which is the ultimate cause of the problems shown on the fish. In addition, I believe your tank is 65g; is that 48" long", or 36" long? A picture of the full tank will help envision conditions.

Your fish has two completely separate issues, neither of the two is directly contagious to the other fish in your community tank. Regardless, all fish in the tank have been exposed for a long period of time so there is no good reason to keep the SD in the bucket, as that will only contribute to his decline rather than improvement, and will not protect the rest of the tank from something that is already there.

The pitting around the head and gills - This is common in SD's, and is usually caused by stress over extended periods of time, usually associated with suboptimal (or right down poor) conditions. Those may include, i) suboptimal water quality or water characteristics, ii) limited space, iii) living alone (no other dollars), iv) suboptimal diet, and most likely, v) combinations of all those issues plus potentially others. Although not the same thing, this is somewhat analogous to pitting on the head of cichlids, and in the same manner, lessions can become secondarily infected by any of a number of bacteria and or fungus. The condition is reversible, sometimes with minimum scarring, but it will take a concerted effort to improve as many of the potential sources. That means, water quality needs improvement (via water changes), diet modified, ideally suitable tankmates, best more silver dollars (but I realize that can be difficult).

The whitish stuff on the caudal fin, which may also appear sometimes on other fins and then go away temporarily, only to reappear or become larger - This is also very common, and I do not know the proximate cause, but it is always related to suboptimal water quality. I strongly believe the causal agent is either bacterial or fungal, but I feel more strongly about bacterial. It often reduces itself (of even disappears) after a water change, only to reappear. But it is there, if not on the fish, I suspect hiding in the substratum, only to reinfect later. If not addressed, it can result in permanent damage to the fins (and worse), and become secondarily infected with additional bacteria and fungus. It is also almost always reversible, with little permanent damage, if corrected.

Again, neither of the two conditions are directly contagious to the other fish in your tank. They are present in the tank, even if they have not manifested themselves on the other fish, or you may not have notice them. Some fish deal better with long-term stress or water quality than others.
I apologize for the long text, but hopefully it will be helpful to you. In time, if you want suggestions for better food items, I would be happy to address that. Please put (the dollar) back in the tank.
I leave you with photos of some of my dollars, including some M. lippincotianus. Cheers and good luck!

A 75g with 3 spp of Metynnis (only 2 visible). Three fish in the picture are an estimated 24 years of age (20 directly documented)
View attachment 312969
Some of the same fish in a 125g, 3 spp.
View attachment 312970
Same tank, 2 years later (last year)
View attachment 312971
Metynnis fasciatus (tiger dollars) in 75g
View attachment 312972

Wow! I'm so glad I have someone who knows my fish so well giving me a hand! I love my silvers so much, I've had them since I was 10, and pretty much grew up with this specific fish. Obviously the first few years weren't great, they were my mom's fish, but they've been doing well since I took over. She had two originally, this sick one is one of them, and then when I realized they were schooling fish I got three more babies. Now I have 4 adults, and I'm getting a 20 gallon ready to move some of the other fish into so I can get a larger group of silvers. We're in a bit of a transition period with the tank, all that is in it at the moment is some pieces of Driftwood and rocks, as they ate all my plants

Ok, now more information about the tank-
PH is around 7, but softens between water changes. I leave it be because I'd rather not mess with it.
Nitrites are always kept low, or at least I try to keep them at 0. I do weekly water changes of around 50% give or take a little and gravel vac. I do not often test for Nitrites, but I tested about three weeks ago after a water change and it was 0. I'll test every few months but I've had the tank so long I feel like it's pretty consistent.
Ok, food isn't great I admit. It's a lame excuse but my mother has a phobia of worms and will not allow me to keep them in the house, and since I am not always around to feed the tank I try to keep feeding simple for my family. I feed tetramin fish flakes, I have a separate veggie flake, and then I boil assorted veggies in addition, Spinach is the silvers favorite.
As for tank mates, 5 Rosy barbs, 8 zebra danios, 2 cardinal tetras, 1 pleco, 3 albino cory cats, and 3 kuhli loaches. Random assortment I know. Everyone gets along, I haven't seen any signs of bullying.
Also, I haven't added any new fish or plants or decor in over a year.
Tank is 48 long
If you really think I should put her back I will go ahead and reintroduce her, I just worry about it spreading to everyone.
Also, how do you know she is female?
And your tanks are beautiful, mine are a work in progress.
And yes your post is extremely helpful I appreciate it.

 

[FranciscoB]

I hope your fish is better? (at least not worse). I wanted to get back to you on a couple of things.

1- pH sounds good. Also, as you said, better not to mess with it, especially if it already is within a good range for the type of fish. If it goes lower over time, it also suggest you have relatively soft water.
2- Water changes of 50% weekly. At face value it does not sound bad, but it depends strongly on several additional factors - Bioload (total mass of fish & invertebrates); feeding practices (overfeeding is bad); type of substratum (sand allows to maintain it clean, whereas gravel less well), and others.
I strive to (and succeed unless I travel) to change no less than 70% of water weekly. Although I would like to do 2x 30-40% (twice a week), most weeks I can only afford to do a single 70% in most tanks. It works ok for me. NitrAte levels (see below) and fish health are the references one should use to live by.
2- Nitrate - I spoke about keeping NitrAte (with A) as low as possible via frequency of water changes (plus not overfeeding, servicing filters, etc.).
You responded: "Nitrites are always kept low, or at least I try to keep them at 0..." and "I do not often test for Nitrites, but I tested about three weeks ago after a water change and it was 0. I'll test every few months but I've had the tank so long I feel like it's pretty consistent"
It appears we are talking about different things. The nitrogen cycle goes: Ammonia (put out mainly by fish) changes to NitrIte (with I) by bacterial action, and in turn changes to NitrAte (with A) by other bacterial action. The latter (nitrAte) accumulates and some of it may be taken by plants, or else, we must take it out regularly via water changes; otherwise it continues to accumulate to damaging levels. However (somewhat unfortunately), nitrate is not deadly in the short term; instead, it lowers water quality, causes stress and physiological demand on the fish, and if persistent, lowers the well-being by making them prone to other agents of disease. In a fully established tank (cycled and working properly), there should not be ammonia or nitrIte (with I), and nitrAte should be kept as low as possible via water changes. That one, (NitrAte) is the one that is most useful as a gauge of whether one is doing sufficient water changes.
I strive to as low as possible, but my tap water already comes with detectable levels (5-10ppm).
3- Apparently I misunderstood you -
From your last post I believe you have multiple silver dollars? (how many?) Or, you used to have more and now have only one? Clarifying this is important. As I mentioned, they are very social animals.
4- You asked how I know it is a female. I don't. I said I think it is a female, but a side (flat) picture is needed to assess in fairness. Looking at your previous pictures, I see the fish has its anal fin fairly frayed (small injuries while catching it?), so it is actually not possible to tell well its gender and it could even be a male. If you post side pictures of your dollars, I and others can tell you what species and genders they are. Regardless, this is how it works in Metynnis, and most other silver dollars. Females have a straight edge ANAL FIN (not expanded along its outer edge), and this is usually more colorful (red) than in males. Males, have what is referred to as a BILOBED Anal fin (two lobes), where the outer edge expands in the lower portion of the fin, making it wider than in the upper portion; also, the anal fin of males is much less colorful than in females.
In M. lippincotianus, in addition, males (when showing off) have both a large black humeral spot (behind gill, on the side, center), and also a red humeral spot below and a bit forward of the former. Females can (rarely) have the red spot, but generally have only the black, or not at all. Two pictures below of M. lippincotianus, female first, them male. Don't be thrown off by the difference in shape of the two fish: this particular female has an unusual shape, for other historic reasons.

Hope to hear how your fish is doing and we can talk about foods. Got to go for now.
Cheers!

 

[Penelope .R]

I hope your fish is better? (at least not worse). I wanted to get back to you on a couple of things.

1- pH sounds good. Also, as you said, better not to mess with it, especially if it already is within a good range for the type of fish. If it goes lower over time, it also suggest you have relatively soft water.
2- Water changes of 50% weekly. At face value it does not sound bad, but it depends strongly on several additional factors - Bioload (total mass of fish & invertebrates); feeding practices (overfeeding is bad); type of substratum (sand allows to maintain it clean, whereas gravel less well), and others.
I strive to (and succeed unless I travel) to change no less than 70% of water weekly. Although I would like to do 2x 30-40% (twice a week), most weeks I can only afford to do a single 70% in most tanks. It works ok for me. NitrAte levels (see below) and fish health are the references one should use to live by.
2- Nitrate - I spoke about keeping NitrAte (with A) as low as possible via frequency of water changes (plus not overfeeding, servicing filters, etc.).
You responded: "Nitrites are always kept low, or at least I try to keep them at 0..." and "I do not often test for Nitrites, but I tested about three weeks ago after a water change and it was 0. I'll test every few months but I've had the tank so long I feel like it's pretty consistent"
It appears we are talking about different things. The nitrogen cycle goes: Ammonia (put out mainly by fish) changes to NitrIte (with I) by bacterial action, and in turn changes to NitrAte (with A) by other bacterial action. The latter (nitrAte) accumulates and some of it may be taken by plants, or else, we must take it out regularly via water changes; otherwise it continues to accumulate to damaging levels. However (somewhat unfortunately), nitrate is not deadly in the short term; instead, it lowers water quality, causes stress and physiological demand on the fish, and if persistent, lowers the well-being by making them prone to other agents of disease. In a fully established tank (cycled and working properly), there should not be ammonia or nitrIte (with I), and nitrAte should be kept as low as possible via water changes. That one, (NitrAte) is the one that is most useful as a gauge of whether one is doing sufficient water changes.
I strive to as low as possible, but my tap water already comes with detectable levels (5-10ppm).
3- Apparently I misunderstood you -
From your last post I believe you have multiple silver dollars? (how many?) Or, you used to have more and now have only one? Clarifying this is important. As I mentioned, they are very social animals.
4- You asked how I know it is a female. I don't. I said I think it is a female, but a side (flat) picture is needed to assess in fairness. Looking at your previous pictures, I see the fish has its anal fin fairly frayed (small injuries while catching it?), so it is actually not possible to tell well its gender and it could even be a male. If you post side pictures of your dollars, I and others can tell you what species and genders they are. Regardless, this is how it works in Metynnis, and most other silver dollars. Females have a straight edge ANAL FIN (not expanded along its outer edge), and this is usually more colorful (red) than in males. Males, have what is referred to as a BILOBED Anal fin (two lobes), where the outer edge expands in the lower portion of the fin, making it wider than in the upper portion; also, the anal fin of males is much less colorful than in females.
In M. lippincotianus, in addition, males (when showing off) have both a large black humeral spot (behind gill, on the side, center), and also a red humeral spot below and a bit forward of the former. Females can (rarely) have the red spot, but generally have only the black, or not at all. Two pictures below of M. lippincotianus, female first, them male. Don't be thrown off by the difference in shape of the two fish: this particular female has an unusual shape, for other historic reasons.
View attachment 313068View attachment 313069
Hope to hear how your fish is doing and we can talk about foods. Got to go for now.
Cheers!

Sorry, I misread your post, nitrAte is kept low, though like I said I haven't tested in a while. I need to buy more solution for my kit.
Little update. He doesn't look worse or better but is back with the other fish as per your advice, and to clarify I currently have four silver dollars. And intend to get 4 more once this issue is resolved.
I can do larger water changes, it's not an issue for me. It does take a lot of time as you know to change the water in a large tank like this, so I prefer to do it once a week. But I can aim for more often for the time being. I just cleaned the tank yesterday, washed out the filter media in a bucket full of tank water and cleaned the pipes. I am at work right now but can take some pictures of the fish in the tank later.

Currently in the tank is 4 silver dollars
5 Rosy barbs
3 corys
3 kuhli loaches
7 zebra danios
2 cardinal tetras
And 1 medium sized pleco
They've all lived together for 2 years now and generally do very well, no bullying or sickness in the last year until now, no deaths. Sorry, thought I would clarify the stocking.

And that's very interesting I didn't know there was a way to tell the difference between male and female, although I was googling it yesterday.
I'm at work right now but can get some pictures of the setup later, I'm adding a couple new plants I have had in isolation for a few weeks later, going to see if I can get java moss to grow on my driftwood, as you know the water goats eat everything
Thanks again, I will keep updating on the fish as he progresses.

 

[Penelope .R]

Just wanted to update today with pictures.
The fish is doing well for the most part. Yesterday he was swimming around all day and did eat a bit at feeding time, not as much as usual but he did eat. He's weak and gets pushed around by the current more than the other fish, but is strong enough to swim against it and is doing fine.

Today he is hiding more under his tree but did come out at feeding time, although again he didn't partake much but the fact that he is out and about right now is enough for me.

I am trying to do large daily water changes for the time being and I'm trying to improve my feeding regimen, although I'm not sure where to start. I've incorporated more commercial foods into their diet, and I'm working on figuring out live foods. I've always fed lots of veggies, but their favorite is spinach.
Here are pictures of the tank and fish

 

[FranciscoB]

Hi again. You still have not provided info on nitrate levels in your tank. That info is critical mainly for you to guide your actions.
I am going to apologize in advance, but my comments below are going to be tough to take. Because it does not look good.
It appears you have at least 2 male M. Lippincotianus; one of them appears to be a female but it is not shown well in the pictures so I am not sure. The fish you returned to the tank is in such poor shape, with its fins rotten to the point of making difficult to assess, but I also think it could be another female.
I am sorry but being very bluntly honest, your silver dollars are in very poor health. All four of them. They are emaciated, very skinny, and one of them (the one you had in the bucket), its body is deformed almost beyond recognition. I suspect they have internal parasites, but I believe they also have been in poor water quality for a long time. That fish is in the poorest condition of all, which you already knew. In addition to general conditions, for whatever reasons, that fish may have been at the bottom of the pecking order for a long time, resulting in major stress. Together with likely parasites, all has resulted in its current state. I don’t believe there is hope for that fish. Sad as it sounds, if it were my fish I would euthanize it.
Silver dollars are not strict vegetarians. A diet of spinach only has not provided the nutrition they need, including vitamins and others, such as bugs and variety. There are good pellet options. Variety is the key.
What is odd is that at least 2 of the barbs look ok. A third barb (top right in 1st picture) also looks in very poor shape, reinforcing the idea that water quality or parasite load, or both, are amiss in the tank.
I strongly suggest to get a clear idea of nitrate and make a long term plan to maintain it as low as possible. Treating for internal parasites may be a good idea, but of course at this time it is not clear to me what the issue is.
I would strongly suggest not to get more fish until you better understand what is going on, and an action plan is in place, and showing positive results. Even if conditions were okay, a 65g is not very large (48x13xabout 18 inches high). You indicated wanting to get 4 more dollars. 8 total + the tankmates is too much for the tank.
I wish I could have a happier assessment, but I can’t and I think you deserve honesty.
You can turn things around, but need to monitor conditions and apply decisive measurements accordingly. It may be late for some of the fish, but it can work for others.
Take care.

 

[Penelope .R]

Hi again. You still have not provided info on nitrate levels in your tank. That info is critical mainly for you to guide your actions.
I am going to apologize in advance, but my comments below are going to be tough to take. Because it does not look good.
It appears you have at least 2 male M. Lippincotianus; one of them appears to be a female but it is not shown well in the pictures so I am not sure. The fish you returned to the tank is in such poor shape, with its fins rotten to the point of making difficult to assess, but I also think it could be another female.
I am sorry but being very bluntly honest, your silver dollars are in very poor health. All four of them. They are emaciated, very skinny, and one of them (the one you had in the bucket), its body is deformed almost beyond recognition. I suspect they have internal parasites, but I believe they also have been in poor water quality for a long time. That fish is in the poorest condition of all, which you already knew. In addition to general conditions, for whatever reasons, that fish may have been at the bottom of the pecking order for a long time, resulting in major stress. Together with likely parasites, all has resulted in its current state. I don’t believe there is hope for that fish. Sad as it sounds, if it were my fish I would euthanize it.
Silver dollars are not strict vegetarians. A diet of spinach only has not provided the nutrition they need, including vitamins and others, such as bugs and variety. There are good pellet options. Variety is the key.
What is odd is that at least 2 of the barbs look ok. A third barb (top right in 1st picture) also looks in very poor shape, reinforcing the idea that water quality or parasite load, or both, are amiss in the tank.
I strongly suggest to get a clear idea of nitrate and make a long term plan to maintain it as low as possible. Treating for internal parasites may be a good idea, but of course at this time it is not clear to me what the issue is.
I would strongly suggest not to get more fish until you better understand what is going on, and an action plan is in place, and showing positive results. Even if conditions were okay, a 65g is not very large (48x13xabout 18 inches high). You indicated wanting to get 4 more dollars. 8 total + the tankmates is too much for the tank.
I wish I could have a happier assessment, but I can’t and I think you deserve honesty.
You can turn things around, but need to monitor conditions and apply decisive measurements accordingly. It may be late for some of the fish, but it can work for others.
Take care.

I've provided more pictures below, I'm sorry I don't think my previous posts were very clear.

All pictures in my last update are of one sick silver dollar. All others are in good shape as far as I can tell.

I'm sorry I thought I did provide both nitrites and nitrate in my previous posts. Both are currently 0, as is ammonia, but I admit they could have been higher before as I have been doing daily water changes for the last week and just cleaned the filter. Prior to this, I was doing weekly changes which you pointed out may not have been enough, and I have noted and will try to do 2-3 large changes a week going forward, I thought too many would stress the fish but clearly water quality is more important.

I have not gotten any new fish in 2 years and I have not lost any fish since, I don't plan to add any more dollars until all fish are healthy again.

As for the barbs they all seem in good shape in person, perhaps the one that looks odd in the picture is a trick in the lighting.

I dont only feed them spinach. I feed them many greens and vegetables, spinach is their favorite though. I also feed seaweed, api tropical greens flakes, Hikari vibra bites, fluval bug bites, and tetra min tropical flakes. I have many reptiles so I understand the importance of a varied diet, I admit I could do better so I am definitely curious as to what I could feed in addition. Do you have a favorite brand of commercial food? Or a go-to veggie blend you feed your fish? What about live foods for Silver dollars, will they eat live foods? I am open to all advice and truly appreciate it.

Here are more pictures of the other fish, I believe they are in good shape for the most part, but perhaps I'm mistaken.

Here are all of the silver dollars together at feeding time. The sick dollar actually ate some spinach tonight, which makes me hopeful since he hasn't shown much interest in food otherwise. Based on your input I believe I have two females and two males, one of the females being the sick one. The two males are young, around 2, while the females I have had for 9 years now.

here are the three other dollars together, excluding the sick one. I think they look good but again perhaps I am missing something? I will defer to your judgment.

Another picture of the sick deformed dollar next to a much younger one. The sick one is 9 years old and the younger is 2.

the Rosy barbs all have good bodies and bright color so again I think they are doing well?

I just thought this one was cute, a loach came out to nibble on a bit of spinach tonight.

again the three healthy looking dollars

and the whole tank.

I hope this post clears up any confusion, then again the confusion may be on my end, sorry
I truly appreciate your help, and while I'm not ready to give up hope yet I appreciate your advice to euthize. Why I don't believe it is time for that is simply because in the last few days he is showing an interest in food again and swimming around much more as opposed to hiding under the branchy Driftwood in the corner. If he goes downhill again I will consider it but for now I'm just staying on top of water quality with daily changes.

Now I'd like to know more about internal parasites. While I recognize I don't know enough to treat yet, I have never had them in my fish before. Is there a treatment you recommend?
What commercial foods do you feed your dollars, and what vegetables and live food if I might ask?
I appreciate your help

 

[FranciscoB]

Hi again. I will start by saying that I wish others will offer their opinions about what is going on with your aquarium and your fish. I don't want to be 'the (only) monster with the bad news', and I can be wrong as well. I encourage other forum members to chime in to try to help you in this situation.
I will say this-
Nitrate - In an established aquarium such as yours (with a decent bioload including largish fish, sparsely planted, potentially having a routine of less than enough water changes), the probability that nitrate is at zero on average is very low and would be hard to explain or imagine. If indeed you have tested, I suggest the test kit is giving you inaccurate results, either because the solution (drops) is spoiled, the directions for the assay are not followed correctly, or something else is affecting the assay; if test strips (not drops) are being used, then they may be too old and not responding. A new kit may be in order. In the meantime, you can always bring a sample to your near pet store and they will test the water for you. However, having a working test kit, particularly if having fish health issues, is absolutely necessary. And nitrate levels (average, not so much just after a water change) are the most informative in your situation.
Fish health (silver dollars) - The one silver dollar that started this thread, IMHO, is past the point of no return. The circumstances that resulted in his current condition did not occur quickly or in a short period of time. Instead, he has been declining for possible months or more. It is very likely that internal parasites played a role, as well as other circumstances (bottom of the pecking order, poor water quality, etc. I cannot not know, I am just listing various possible reasons). I strongly believe it is a combination of factors. If parasites played a role, the agent is in the tank, whether all fish show acute symptoms or not. It is not unusual for some fish not show ill effects even in the presence of parasites; however if some fish have a weakened immune system (for whatever reason), that fish will fall ill before others. But all are exposed to infection.
The other 3 fish are two males and one female. I made clips of some of your photos to point out the items I refer to below. Please don't be offended but you need to know these things.
All are quite skinny but that is solvable.
All of them have the outer edges of most fins frayed and with visible light fungal/bacterial? (not sure) infections. The frayed edges may have started with the rossy barbs nipping at them (not sure, but you may have observed it?), upon which secondary infections have set in. Again these things are solvable but if not addressed they become serious.
One of the males has its right eye swollen (exophthalmy). Typically this results from a bacterial infection. If not addressed, this can become very serious and result on loss of an eye, or impaired vision and more. The same fish has a white infective body on the lower right side, just above the anal fin (photo 2. Not the dots in photo 1, which I think is an artifact). Not sure what that is about. Although average quality photos are sometimes misleading, and there is a lot 'grain' in the photos, as well as particles floating in the water, I believe the items I pointed out are real, because they show in more than one picture, in the same fish and position. You would be the better judge of that.

The other fish (barbs, danios, cardinals) - You are right in that they look Ok to me. The one barb that looked off before, may just be due to a bad picture/angle. Again, sometimes some fish are better at fending off conditions than others.
---
One other note. If I understood correctly, your only filter is the Hydor canister (fine filter, BTW). I would suggest 2 things towards improving water quality. These may or not work for you, but it is what I use and I think they make a huge difference:
i) I would use a prefilter on the intake, to impede solids and food to go into the canister. I clean the prefilters of all filters weekly, and the media in HOB filters weekly as well. The media in canisters less frequently. Since your filter is serviced monthly, without a prefilter there is too much time for maladies to get inside and to fester in there.
ii) I turn the filter off in my tanks during feeding (I have them all on on/off switches). Again, it maintains filter media much cleaner.

Foods (I use this for all my fish, larger size particles for silver dollars) - My fish are mainly south american omnivorous characins and cories, but also others such as gourami, rainbows, plecos) -
I don't know anybody who feeds like I do, and I don't expect anybody to do as I do. However, since you ask, here it goes. I believe in variety, and I don't believe in strict carnivores, nor strict vegetarians.
Unless I am raising fry, adult fish get fed only 4 days per week. However, all my tanks are planted. On the no-food days, I do hang pieces of nori (seaweed) from clips, who are loved by all (photo).

On feeding days, fish 2 different items out of a long list of rotating items, including: Flakes (3 kinds), pellets (12 kinds), frozen (4-5 kinds), Repashy (2 kinds), earthworms (I keep a culture), dry meal worms, garbanzos. For silver dollars, in addition to above, I include sunflower seeds in the rotation. Sometimes I use cucumber (rarely). For commercial brands, I keep NLS (small pellets), KensFish (pellets, flakes & discs), Repashy, and Hikari (frozen). I also make a mix of several varied flakes, pellets & discs (ground with a dedicated coffee mill) that allows feeding large size food to small fish. I keep the stock of each kind frozen, and smaller amounts ('my stash', photo), in a refrigerator, for regular use.

Using this feeding regime accomplishes two things: Everybody gets a varied diet (I can make it heavy on one or another item for individual tanks or fish), AND, nobody develops 'habits' where they would only accept this food or that. Not on my watch.

Ok, I hope this helps (that was my lunch break). I hope others chime in with their input on fish health.
Good luck!