Sick Tiger Barbs

[Nelson Figgs]

Hello every one, first time posting on these forums but I've frequently visited these forums for the available information. Any help will be greatly appreciated, I feel i'm way out of my depth and don't want to lose a fish.


So a while back a friend of mine brought a fish tank, after highly under estimating the amount of time it required he offered for me to take it which I accepted. He had no testing kit, was using a cheap water conditioner and only feeding a tropical flake food.


When I got the tank they had already had 2 fish die, and the water quality wasn't great (I didn't test but could see the colour was off and there was a lot of waste on the tank floor) so did a 30% water change and gravel vac. I noticed that one of the Tiger barbs was bloated with bulging eyes, was hiding away in the corner of the tank and was refusing food. I soon discovered this was Dropsy and a little time later he began to pinecone and eventually die. I then noticed 2 other tiger barbs that were bloated with one having a gill plate that was stuck open. I began doing 40-50% water changes every 2 days over the following 2 weeks and i noticed i good improvement in the behaviour of the fish, but the 2 tiger barbs were still bloated. After doing some research I switched to Prime as a water conditioner, brought the freshwater master test kit and increased the variety of their diet to include Brine Shrimp, Bloodworms, Sinkable pellets, Peas, Mosquito Lavae, and occasionally a big of veg. After testing the water quality I got 0, 0, 15 for the parameters, and PH was 7.2, which I thought was a good sign because I know the tank was a in terrible state when I got it.


Over the next week i monitored the fish and noticed usual behaviour including erratic movements, rapid gill movement, slime over the gills and flicking/rubbing on things in the tank. I didn't have a microscope to test for parasites, but ultimately decided I would treat for gill flukes as they were most likely the cause. I ordered "Fluke-Solve" as many other treatments are simply unavailable in the UK, and began treating. After a week the flicking/rubbing had completely stopped, The fish seemed to be returning to normal behaviour but still the 2 tigers remained bloated.


More recently I noticed these 2 bloated tigers sometimes looking down at the ground for extended periods of time, at a 45 degree incline. Then other times they are completely normal.


I have noticed white poop stuck to the anus of many of the fish, not stringy or long but just a small amount permanently stuck there. 1 of the Tiger barbs has developed a red blotchy rash around his left pectoral fin and is starting to isolate himself from the group. From what I've researched it looks like a bacterial infection of some kind, but I honestly don't know enough to be sure.


I could be missing information so please ask me anything and I will tell you whatever it is you need to know.



Tank


What is the water volume of the tank? 100 litre tank (about 90 litres of water)

How long has the tank been running? Around 8 months

Does it have a filter? Yes

Does it have a heater? Yes

What is the water temperature? Water temp set to 27c

What is the entire stocking of this tank? (Please list all fish and inverts.)

6 Rosy Barbs

6 Tiger Barbs

3 Pictus Catfish

Around 10-15 small snails


Maintenance

How often do you change the water? Once every 2 days at the start of the problems, and now the water quality is good every 4-5 days

How much of the water do you change? 50%

What do you use to treat your water? Seachem Prime

Do you vacuum the substrate or just the water? I only vac


*Parameters - Very Important

Did you cycle your tank before adding fish? Yes (from what the original owner told me)

What do you use to test the water? Freshwater Master

What are your parameters? We need to know the exact numbers, not just “fine” or “safe”.


Ammonia: 0

Nitrite: 0

Nitrate: 5

pH: 7.2


Feeding

How often do you feed your fish? Once every 1-2 days

How much do you feed your fish? If one day since last feed I will give 1 frozen cube or a small-moderate sized sprinkle of flakes

What brand of food do you feed your fish? I feed tropical flakes, brine shrimp, blood worms, mosquito lavae, deshelled peas, catfish pellets, assorted veg occasionally

Do you feed frozen or freeze-dried foods? Frozen


Illness & Symptoms

How long have you had this fish? 3 weeks (original owner had for 7 months)

How long ago did you first notice these symptoms? When I first got them

In a few words, can you explain the symptoms?

Tiger Barb 1: Bloated, Gill cover stuck open on left side, possible constipation or small white poop

Tiger Barb 2: Bloated, red blotchy rash around left pectoral fin, possible constipation or small white poop

Have you started any treatment for the illness? On the 3rd week of treatment for gill flukes using "Fluke-Solve", in which Praziquantel is a ingredient

Was your fish physically ill or injured upon purchase? Tiger Barb 1 had a deep cut under his mouth on the right side which starts 1.5cm down from his mouth and is about 2cm in length. All fish were rubbing, swimming erratically and had rapid gill movement

How has its behavior and appearance changed, if at all? Only Tiger barb 2 has strange behaviour, he isolates himself. All barbs have small amount of white poop stuck to them

f

Explain your emergency situation in detail.

At top of page but medications are really limited here in the UK, so can't get most common treatments.


Tiger Barb 1 - Symptoms: Bloated, gill cover stuck open, small white poop stuck to his anus

Tiger Barb 2 - Symptoms: Bloated, red blotchy patch around his left pectoral fin, looks at the ground at a 45 degree angle for extended periods of time, small white poop stuck to him

Pictures of Tiger Barb 2 hiding away from the group, looking at the ground

 

[Colin_T]

The fat tiger barbs look like balloon tiger barbs. These are tiger barbs that are inbred to create a shorter more rounded body. Unfortunately it causes the fish's internal organs to get squished up and they have a lot of internal issues because their organs don't have room to function properly.

If the fish were that shape when you got them, they are probably balloon tiger barbs and will remain like that.

If they are females, then they could have eggs in them as well, and this will put more pressure on their organs and cause them to look fat and deformed.

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If the fish get a lot of dry food, it can cause them to have trouble with their buoyancy and they try to swim down but float up. This is caused by air being swallowed when the fish eat and the air gets trapped in the intestine and needs to work its way out (fish do fart). When the air comes out, the fish can usually swim more normally.

Frozen and live foods are less likely to cause this problem and dry flake foods are the worst for causing this.

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The flared gill cover could be a genetic defect and is probably not a big issue.

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I don't see any white poop on them. Can you provide a picture that shows it?

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The red patch on the left pectoral fin looks like a bacterial infection. I would try salt first because it is safe, easy to get and won't harm the fish.

Add 2 heaped tablespoons of rock salt (aquarium salt), sea salt, or swimming pool salt per 20 litres (5 gallons) of water. Keep the salt at this level for 2 weeks then water change it out.

Wipe the inside of the glass, do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate, and clean the filter before adding the salt.
Make sure the new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it's added to the tank.
Wash filter media in a bucket of tank water and re-use it.

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You could add a picture to the back of the tank. You can buy plastic aquarium backings form pet shops or online, or use some coloured card, newspaper, plastic bin liner, etc. Just tape it to the outside on the back of the tank. It will make the fish feel more secure.

You can reduce the temperature to 24-25C. Most barbs prefer cooler water and 27C is a bit high for them.

 

[Nelson Figgs]

I witnessed the tiger barbs bloat over a short time frame (not long after the fish died of dropsy) slowly they have got bigger. How do I tell which are male/female?

I use to feed dry food on the surface and about a week ago I read about them swallowing air and began mixing it with water before adding it to the tank.

Similar to the bloat, the gill cover wasn't like that originally. It happened during the gill fluke infestation. The gill on the other side of the fish is also stuck slightly open, but not as bad as the left gill.

I'll work on getting the picture of the white poop. It's only a small amount, about 1/4 of a pea sized and it's stuck to them.

I brought some Aquarium Salt. Do I add this to the main tank? Will it be ok with my other barbs and the Pictus catfish? I also read that Aquarium Salt can draw more moisture in as opposed to Epsom Salts which draw moisture out. Is this true? If so will I still be ok to use Aquarium salt on the bloated fish?

I'll work on getting a back picture tomorrow, I didn't think about that. Thanks!

Temperature reduced to 25c


Thanks for all your help, it's really appreciated!

 

[seangee]

Just FWIW - an entire frozen cube is way too much for the fish you mentioned. Do you know that you should let the frozen food thaw out in tank water before feeding.

Oh and those frozen foods should be a once a week treat rather than regular feeding.

 

[Nelson Figgs]

Yes I should have been more specific. I only give a frozen cube every 3 or 4 feedings. The average week would look like (with 2 days between feedings) Flake > Frozen food > Flake > Pea (or sometimes other veg) and repeat. They do sometimes pick off some catfish pellets if they're quick enough.

Yes I thaw them out thoroughly with their tank water in a large glass before adding it to the tank.

Should I cut the frozen cube up? Or can I thaw it out and refreeze part of it? How much of a cube should they get? They eat it within 15 seconds every time.

Thanks for your help!!

 

[seangee]

Should I cut the frozen cube up? Or can I thaw it out and refreeze part of it? How much of a cube should they get? They eat it within 15 seconds every time.

If its gone in 15 seconds I guess its ok. Only mentioned thawing and not every feed because that's a mistake I made when I started out

 

[Nelson Figgs]

Thanks for the advice though. I think my mistake was feeding flake at the surface.

 

[Colin_T]

I brought some Aquarium Salt. Do I add this to the main tank? Will it be ok with my other barbs and the Pictus catfish? I also read that Aquarium Salt can draw more moisture in as opposed to Epsom Salts which draw moisture out. Is this true? If so will I still be ok to use Aquarium salt on the bloated fish?

Yes you add the salt to the main aquarium. Use 2 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres of water.

That level of salt is fine for all fish, plants, snails, shrimp and filter bacteria.

Adding salt to the water affects the fish's osmoregulatory system, but it is fine to use on the fat fish.

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Male tiger barbs get red lips and are slimmer than females, who don't get red lips but do get fat when they have eggs in them.

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You can feed frozen (but defrosted) food to fish every day. It's fine. I used to feed my fish with dry food in the morning and then frozen in the evening. Just feed them a variety of food and do regular water changes and gravel cleans (which you already do) to keep the tank clean.

 

[Kritastrophe]

I agree with what has been already said, but I also wanted to add that tiger barbs rest head down. I saw you mentioned that you saw them sitting like that and I just wanted to let you know that while they rest it is entirely normal behavior to be nose down or angled. Mine do it almost instantly after the lights go out.

 

[Nelson Figgs]

Ok thanks for that! I noticed some of them do it when I first got them, but didn't notice it again until that picture. Is it normal to do that with lights on and away from the rest of the fish?

Today I did as Colin suggested. I did a 75% water change, gravel vac, wiped down the inside of the tank and cleaned the filter. Before adding the last 10 litres of water to the tank, i added the salt at a rate of 2 table spoons of aquarium salt per 20 litres of water (totalling 9 for the roughly 90 litres of water). I dissolved it in the bucket over the space of 5-10 minutes and then readjusted the temperature to match the tank before treating with prime. I tried to empty the bucket in slowly over the course of 2-3 minutes spreading it around the tank.

The rash on Tiger barb 2 seems to have gone down as quickly as it appeared. I managed to get a picture of the small amount of white poop on the fish and will upload it shortly.

 

[Nelson Figgs]

One of the catfish (the biggest) looks very restless and is now swimming up and down the glass very fast, he's been doing it for about 2 hours now. Anything to worry about or is this normal?

 

[Colin_T]

Assuming the water was free of chlorine/ chloramine and other harmful chemicals, the pictus should be fine. Pictus catfish are quite active fish and will regularly swim around during the day or night.

Make sure you have plenty of aeration/ surface turbulence in the tank and check the water for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH. If there is any ammonia or nitrite, or the nitrate is above 20ppm, then do a huge water change and gravel clean the substrate. If the pH is extreme in any direction then check the tap water and do a water change.