Seeking First Time Advice From Wise Aquariests

devocole

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Hello all. Over the past 4 months i have discovered a love for aquariums. I started out 3 years ago with a beta in a 2 gallon. Then guppies in a 3 gallon planted. Then tetras in a 6 gallon planted. But now i would like to upgrade to a larger tank set up.

Recently I was about to buy a 55-90 gallon and really get into the planted aquarium hobby, but in a little bit of reading i realized that it is going to take a little know how to make it work well.

There are many places to go on the internet to get advice and quick start up guides, and there are plenty of books, etc. but i was hoping that a few veterans could lead me in the best direction. If you could suggest any websites or books for a guide to learn how to manage and start a planted aquarium, it would be much appreciated.

Also any advice as to what size of aquarium to start with, good substrate, lighting set ups and plants types would be great.

Thanks guys
Devon
 
Tank - biggest possible :D

substrate - you can have inert substrate or something like Eco-complete is good.

lighting - depends on plants 1-2wpg for low light then 2-3wpg for high light

co2 - needed definatley for set-ups with 2wpg+

ferts - a good all round fert which includeds basic elements like TPN+ (tropica plant nutrition +) it contains NPK (nitrate, phosphate, pottasium)



Aquatic eden -

<a href="http://www.aquatic-eden.com/2007/10/creati...underwater.html" target="_blank">http://www.aquatic-eden.com/2007/10/creati...underwater.html</a>

Natural aquariums -

<a href="http://naturalaquariums.com/" target="_blank">http://naturalaquariums.com/</a>
 
These sites are the ones you want (as well as this forum's planted section of course)

The UK Aquatic Plant Society
www.ukaps.org

This is a site run by one of the UKaps and this forum's members which has loads of good info on lights, fertilisers, algae etc.
www.theplantedtank.co.uk/index.htm

Finally this is the site of Tom Barr who is basically a pioneer in the field of planted tanks. sometimes to extremes of testing that would never make a difference to us, but he shares his knowledge freely with us all and he also post on this forum regularly.
www.barrreport.com

welcome to the planted scene and good luck

Andy
 

Rather than initially link to another website that prominently features a forum, wouldn't it be better to just answer the question yourselves and show a newcomer just how informative this site can be. I'm not saying that the sites above aren't good, some of them are great, but why not give people a chance to answer before linking automatically to a forum?

For instance...

There are many ways to set up a planted aquarium. Here is a brief breakdown of some of the major methods.

1. High-tech: Usually involves CO2 injection (for your size tank, pressurized is a must, smaller tanks can get away with a Yeast-based reaction), between 1.5-3WPG of lighting (again, dependant on the size of tank you go for, the smaller the tank the more light it needs, but your tanks are quite large, so I wouldn't go past 2WPG), a fert regimen of some type (either in the substrate or fed through the water column) where macronutriens (Nitrogen, Potassium, etc) and micronutrients are dosed. This is generic, of course, there are many themes and variations. Plants with this method, in general, again, can grow rapidly and very well, but there is a risk of algae if the system is not in balance (mostly due to a lack of CO2 or a deficiency of some nutrient). A challenging, yet rewarding undertaking for a planted tank, but possibly the method that can also cause the most problems if not maintained well. Usually calls for large, weekly water changes (50%) to reset the nutrient levels in the water, especially if you use the EI method of fertilisation. Greatly recommended if you enjoy rapid growth, gadgets, and constant tank tweaking. Light fish stocking also recommended as you don't want them to contribute much to the fert equation.

2. El Natural: A method illustrated by Diana Walstad's book "Ecology of the Planted Aquarium" (A good read if you have the time. In a nutshell, lower light levels (though I've seen acceptions, probably more like 1.5-2.5WPG, but it varies more), uses soil substrates, may or may not implement natural sunlight, light fish stock, light mechanical filtration, etc. It seems to me an attempt to recreate more of a self-sustaining system. Water changes are not encouraged in this method, some sources recommend every 6 months with only top-offs. Again, like the high-tech, above, this method has also been adapted to suit the needs of the aquarists. I've seen Walstad tanks in sizes ranging from 2.5g to over 100g.

3. Low-light/Low-tech: For tanks less than 55g about 1-1.5WPG, for larger systems 1WPG can be done if the lighting is good quality with reflectors. Slow-growth, low maintenance is the key here. CO2 is optional, but can be used to good effect. Substrate can be inert (what I use) or nutrient-rich. If using a nutrient-rich substrate, however, try to plant very densly with stemplants, as I have observed that sometimes the plants don't grow at a rate that utilizes all the nutrients in the aquarium and people have had algae problems despite the lower light levels. Water changes are not as crucial as in the high-tech method, but more frequent then El Natural. You also have more flexibility with fish stock, especially if the tank is densly planted. Dosing ferts can become optional, especially as the tanks age. The biggest drawback is that plant choice is more limited (without CO2 to soften the water and reduce the pH, and the reduced lighting). You can, however, still enjoy a lovely tank with contrasting leaf shapes and patterns, if you research your species well. It is also a good method for those with MTS (multiple tank syndrome) as they are a bit easier to maintain and for first-timers as the lower light levels make growth slower and more easy to manage, and algae problems are less overwhelming.

Of course, there are bastardizations of all three of the above methods. There are low-light tanks that use EI, there are high-tech tanks that do not. There are new innovative ways to grow lawncovers using emersed growth techniques, etc. The list really goes on. I would suggest that you decide what you wish to accomplish with your tank and research the method that most appeals to you. Takashi Amano and Tom Barr are authors (books and online) of the more high-tech methods, though Barr does some lovely things with lower light levels as well. Read the Walstad book for her method on El Natural. As for the low-tech/low-light method, that one experiences the most variation, and I've not really seen a nice book out there. I have the Encyclopedia of Aquarium Plants by Peter Hiscock (literally his name, poor man), but the methodologies are out-dated. I also like the Baensch Aquarium atlas series for some general information on planted tank setup and plant species. Good stuff. Much of the literature will base WPG on normal output T12s or T8s (I can never remember, nor do I particularly care), but lighting has come along way, and Power Compacts and T5s can allow you to get away with a lot less light wattage-wise and still grow some pretty lovely plants.

I do not advocate a specific method. I'm pretty busy, so right now, I adapt the low-light/low-tech method to suit my needs, but I've done high-tech tanks two, and honestly rate them about equal in appeal.

Feel free to read the pinned articles above written by George Farmer and check out some of the detailed plant species indexes (sp) in the Index at TFF. I have an easy plant list in my signature. Finally, read through the journals and Members tank section. The journals are very detailed accounts (including algae pitfalls and CO2 catastrophes). The Member's Tank section represents a culmination of some of our best Planted tanks at TFF, and the methods and scaping are well-explained.

I hope this helps. Again, not saying that the websites recommended to you are poor, they are excellent (though check the first link, didn't work for me), I encourage members to take the time to actually write out answers before resorting to the links. Also, if you choose to link, try to link directly to the article and bypass the forum of that site alltogether, but let others attempt to answer the question first.

Good luck to you, Devocole. If you have any questions, feel free to ask us, and have fun with your planned tank.

llj :good:
 
Taking care of a big tank is the same as taking care of a small tank except you do everything on a bigger scale. Also the bigger volume of water will be more stable providing a better habitat for the occupants.
You do a partial water change using dechlorinated water with a similar temp & PH to the tank every now and then. How often and how much water you change depends on the nitrate levels. If the nitrates go up rapidly you do more frequent water changes or you change more water each time. If the nitrates stay low then smaller water changes done less frequently will be adequate.

Try not to buy a tank more than 2ft high as they become difficult to get into and clean. And avoid buying tall narrow tanks. They have a small surface area and don't do as well. Tanks around 4ft long x 18 inch high & wide work well. Also 4x2x2ft tanks.
It also depends on how much space you have and what the floor is made of. If you have concrete floors and heaps of room and don't plan on moving house soon, then go bigger. If you have wooden floors and move house every 6 months then go small.

You can use gravel on the bottom or some people mix laterite (red clay) into the gravel. You can also use other media for the substrate but gravel is generally the cleanest. People use other things in the substrate to promote plant growth but it prevents you from being able to clean the gravel like you would in a normal fish tank. The plant roots are used to help keep the substrate in good health.

The type of lights you use will depend on how high the tank is. In tanks that are less than 18inches high fluorescent lights are suitable. If the tank is taller, say 2ft high then metal halides are best. The light from metal halides will penetrate the deeper water and give more light to the plants near the bottom of the tank.
T5 fluorescent lights are now available and they provide more intense light than standard fluoros but their water penetrating ability is still not as good as metal halide.

Globes are available in different temperature or Kelvin (K) ratings. Sunlight has a Kelvin rating of about 5,700K. If you buy a globe that is slightly higher than this then the plants should be fine. You go for a slightly higher temp because as the globes get older their Kelvin rating decreases. Try to get a globe between 6,000K & 10,000K. Personally i like 10,000K. Don't go any higher than 10,000K.

Lights are normally on for about 12 hours a day. If you use metal halide then 8-10 hours should suffice. Fluoros can be on for longer if you like. If you get a lot of algae growing in the tank then decrease the lighting period. If the algae doesn't grow everywhere then you can increase the lighting period. Just make sure the lights are turned off for at least 8 hours a night.

Good plants to try include Ambulia, Hygrophilla sp, Elodia, Ludwigia, Vallis & Swordplants.

Use an iron based plant fertiliser to help promote growth.
Carbon Dioxide (CO2) can be added but is not essential. The fish produce CO2 and there is plenty in the atmosphere that will get into the tank. If you do want to use CO2 then buy a decent brand and only have it on during the day. At night the plants use oxygen and release CO2. If the CO2 unit is on at night and there is no surface turbulence you can suffocate the fish and other inhabitants.
Try the tank without CO2 and if you want to add it later you can.

If you do run CO2 you will need to monitor the Carbonate Hardness (KH) of the tank water. The KH is used to stop the PH dropping due to the CO2 going into it. You can buy test kits and KH buffers from any petshop.
 

Rather than initially link to another website that prominently features a forum, wouldn't it be better to just answer the question yourselves and show a newcomer just how informative this site can be. I'm not saying that the sites above aren't good, some of them are great, but why not give people a chance to answer before linking automatically to a forum?

:good: no offence to anyone but quick replys with just a link is basically sayin..

1. you dont really know much about the specific question
2. Just too lazy to answer it properly..

If its any of the above, i agree with lljdm, give members who do know and can be bothered a chance to post.
 
Wow, thanks for the advice. It is hard what to choose. Alll i know is that i would like a variety. Part of the tank to be fairly densley planted but also a large part to be almost grassy and field like.
Thanks again
Devon



Rather than initially link to another website that prominently features a forum, wouldn't it be better to just answer the question yourselves and show a newcomer just how informative this site can be. I'm not saying that the sites above aren't good, some of them are great, but why not give people a chance to answer before linking automatically to a forum?

For instance...

There are many ways to set up a planted aquarium. Here is a brief breakdown of some of the major methods.

1. High-tech: Usually involves CO2 injection (for your size tank, pressurized is a must, smaller tanks can get away with a Yeast-based reaction), between 1.5-3WPG of lighting (again, dependant on the size of tank you go for, the smaller the tank the more light it needs, but your tanks are quite large, so I wouldn't go past 2WPG), a fert regimen of some type (either in the substrate or fed through the water column) where macronutriens (Nitrogen, Potassium, etc) and micronutrients are dosed. This is generic, of course, there are many themes and variations. Plants with this method, in general, again, can grow rapidly and very well, but there is a risk of algae if the system is not in balance (mostly due to a lack of CO2 or a deficiency of some nutrient). A challenging, yet rewarding undertaking for a planted tank, but possibly the method that can also cause the most problems if not maintained well. Usually calls for large, weekly water changes (50%) to reset the nutrient levels in the water, especially if you use the EI method of fertilisation. Greatly recommended if you enjoy rapid growth, gadgets, and constant tank tweaking. Light fish stocking also recommended as you don't want them to contribute much to the fert equation.

2. El Natural: A method illustrated by Diana Walstad's book "Ecology of the Planted Aquarium" (A good read if you have the time. In a nutshell, lower light levels (though I've seen acceptions, probably more like 1.5-2.5WPG, but it varies more), uses soil substrates, may or may not implement natural sunlight, light fish stock, light mechanical filtration, etc. It seems to me an attempt to recreate more of a self-sustaining system. Water changes are not encouraged in this method, some sources recommend every 6 months with only top-offs. Again, like the high-tech, above, this method has also been adapted to suit the needs of the aquarists. I've seen Walstad tanks in sizes ranging from 2.5g to over 100g.

3. Low-light/Low-tech: For tanks less than 55g about 1-1.5WPG, for larger systems 1WPG can be done if the lighting is good quality with reflectors. Slow-growth, low maintenance is the key here. CO2 is optional, but can be used to good effect. Substrate can be inert (what I use) or nutrient-rich. If using a nutrient-rich substrate, however, try to plant very densly with stemplants, as I have observed that sometimes the plants don't grow at a rate that utilizes all the nutrients in the aquarium and people have had algae problems despite the lower light levels. Water changes are not as crucial as in the high-tech method, but more frequent then El Natural. You also have more flexibility with fish stock, especially if the tank is densly planted. Dosing ferts can become optional, especially as the tanks age. The biggest drawback is that plant choice is more limited (without CO2 to soften the water and reduce the pH, and the reduced lighting). You can, however, still enjoy a lovely tank with contrasting leaf shapes and patterns, if you research your species well. It is also a good method for those with MTS (multiple tank syndrome) as they are a bit easier to maintain and for first-timers as the lower light levels make growth slower and more easy to manage, and algae problems are less overwhelming.

Of course, there are bastardizations of all three of the above methods. There are low-light tanks that use EI, there are high-tech tanks that do not. There are new innovative ways to grow lawncovers using emersed growth techniques, etc. The list really goes on. I would suggest that you decide what you wish to accomplish with your tank and research the method that most appeals to you. Takashi Amano and Tom Barr are authors (books and online) of the more high-tech methods, though Barr does some lovely things with lower light levels as well. Read the Walstad book for her method on El Natural. As for the low-tech/low-light method, that one experiences the most variation, and I've not really seen a nice book out there. I have the Encyclopedia of Aquarium Plants by Peter Hiscock (literally his name, poor man), but the methodologies are out-dated. I also like the Baensch Aquarium atlas series for some general information on planted tank setup and plant species. Good stuff. Much of the literature will base WPG on normal output T12s or T8s (I can never remember, nor do I particularly care), but lighting has come along way, and Power Compacts and T5s can allow you to get away with a lot less light wattage-wise and still grow some pretty lovely plants.

I do not advocate a specific method. I'm pretty busy, so right now, I adapt the low-light/low-tech method to suit my needs, but I've done high-tech tanks two, and honestly rate them about equal in appeal.

Feel free to read the pinned articles above written by George Farmer and check out some of the detailed plant species indexes (sp) in the Index at TFF. I have an easy plant list in my signature. Finally, read through the journals and Members tank section. The journals are very detailed accounts (including algae pitfalls and CO2 catastrophes). The Member's Tank section represents a culmination of some of our best Planted tanks at TFF, and the methods and scaping are well-explained.

I hope this helps. Again, not saying that the websites recommended to you are poor, they are excellent (though check the first link, didn't work for me), I encourage members to take the time to actually write out answers before resorting to the links. Also, if you choose to link, try to link directly to the article and bypass the forum of that site alltogether, but let others attempt to answer the question first.

Good luck to you, Devocole. If you have any questions, feel free to ask us, and have fun with your planned tank.

llj :good:
 
Wow, I feel fortunate to have opened this thread! Devon is the rare person who asks first rather than just doing and wondering what went wrong.

Those responses by llj and Colin really required some organization and composition! I just wanted to throw in that I'm interested in some of the same questions as Devon and wanted to say thanks. It should feel even better to know all that work reaches a wider audience, so please accept this extra appreciation.

LLJs 3 groupings achieve exactly something I was struggling to come up with just to be able to ask some initial questions about planted tanks. The more you read, the more tricky it seems to not "go all out." Going lowtech/lowlight just feels like it will make it a little harder to avoid algae problems. One opening that seems to appear for those that don't want to go all out right away seems to be to choose easier plants, is that correct?

Anyway, not trying to change the flow of Devon's thread, just hoping to encourage the planted tank experienced people to continue to advise!

~~waterdrop~~
 
Given your goal:

I'd suggest low light, CO2 enrichment, ADa aqua soil.
Here's an example:

resized70galADAwith1.5wgal.jpg


70 gallon tank with 108 W of T5 lighting

This tank has been abused and neglected a fair amount over the last couple of years.
Still running well, but in need of a trim.

ADA AS is not that bad cost wise vs Flourite and the other stuff.
CO2 gas tanks are cheap once you set them up.

A nice light and tank will cost you, but the end result is a tank that can grow most anything, but with the lower light, you do not have worry as much about dosing or making sure you have enough CO2 etc.

Cost is also a trade off goal there as well.
Figuring out that and what you want are really the hardest things for folks.

and that is why we get so many differing types of advice :good:
However, your goal might not be the same as another's.

Regards,
Tom Barr
 
Only on TFF it seems can a complete newbie get advice from a Pro way up at the top! Many thanks Tom.

Your note makes me realize one of the first things I'll need to do is organize my thoughts to have a real goal with respect to plantings. It may take me quite a while but you will eventually hear from me again on this thread - this whole planted tank hobby is just too fascinating to ignore!

(Sorry, was running around all weekend and couldn't thank earlier!) ~~waterdrop~~
 

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