Reformed plant butcherer attempting to make good on ignorant beginnings

[FatGoatWalks]

Hi all,

First of all, my tank was recycled three years ago and has not been out of action since then.

Over the last three years I have purchased many plants and most have been utter failures due to my ignorance of the topic. In the beginning I was just banging them in the gravel and expecting the aquatic equivalent of Kew Gardens...instead I eventually got sky high nitrates as the plants turned to material that was not pleasant to look at. Herbey I learned a lesson, buying ornaments to hide one's botanical shortcomings is an expensive false economy. Okay, so now up to the present date, I have just (temporarily) defeated BBA and during this break in skirmishes I would like to begin to replant. In the past I have had some success with Water Wisteria - Hygrophila difformis and MoneyWort - Bacopa monnieri. Well, they were always a bit spindly until I upgraded my lights.

I should add that my tank is the notorious Love Fish 64 panorama, I've got rid of the single LED strip and replaced this with the Interpet three-strip LED. I wish I had some technical data to support this post but this so far eludes me (even the box tells me jack!) Ideally, if someone has experience of using this setup could you tell me if it's workable for growing plants?

The substrate I'm currently using is Tetra Complete Substrate - which I think I have spread way too thinly and am going to replace with all new; some time in July. I'd love to have a CO2 setup but funds have been directed elsewhere and I've only just discovered that Fluval do a little 88g setup for less than £100. Could anyone enlighten me as to if this is a waste of money or not?

I'm transitioning filters I had a Fluval U2 and am currently using this to seed its replacement a Fluval U3. The size difference of the filters' respective media meant that it was just easier to run both filters for a fortnight than to try and get the smaller media into the larger filter without bunging it up.

The fish I have at the moment are two Harlequin Rasborras and two honey Gourami with three bronze Cory on the substrate (which has a special sand section that they ignore). I also have seven Amano shrimp of varying ages, a pair of Bamboo / Rock / Mountain / Wood shrimp and around six RCS. I'm not going to change the numbers of fish in the tank until I get the planting and general environment correct.

Any advice would be gratefully received. Thanks in advance.

 

[techen]

I've been in the planted tanks since I joined the forum back in 2012. I'll start by saying most plant failures occur with lack of lighting. These leds strips or bars look bright and sound great on paper but there nowhere near providing light that plants require. The more advanced and hard the plant is the more light required, Not from cheap led kits however.

I'd go ahead and say what kind of plants you'd like to grow, Throw me some images and names and I'll try to help as much as I can. Like I said, Loads of plants require different things.

As for CO2, If moneys a issue I should point you in the direction of yeast CO2 production, If you live in the UK which I assume you do given the tank you bought. You can buy tins of yeast from Tesco, Combine this with water and sugar in a 2l bottle, Put in a air pipe into the cap and connect a air stone and boom. You have CO2 for around a "week" for about 2 quid! The only issue that occurs with this is its quite uncontrollable. You'd want to make sure you have some really good LED/T5 lighting before pumping the tank full of CO2 or it would be the end of the fish. But again we could go into detail about this depending on the plants you want to look into.

Lastly substrate is also insanely important, Paying 40 quid in what looks like dirt might sound silly but seriously. A good brand of plant base for your fish tank can completely turn around plant life.

 

[StevenF]

I had the same issue in the past. CO2 will not help. Your tank should have about 400ppm in it right now. Or you can try and air pump and air stone to better aerate your water. I personally just moved my filter output spray bare so that the water fell about 1/2 inch through the air before hitting the water surface. This pulls a lot of air into to the water.

After your light improvement did your plants do better? Or have you tried plants since the light upgrade? Can you supply a link to the lamp you have or can you supply a picture of the box? That would give use a better idea as to what you have. Also what are your nitrate, nitrite, ammonia, and PH levels right now? Please provide the numbers your tests generate. Also are you using distilled or RO water?

If your water is very soft a good complete fertilizer would help. Your plants may not be getting enough trace (micro) nutrients to grow. Brightwell aquatics florimulti or Seachem Flourish complete are the two I would recommend.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002DVVF0S/?tag=ff0d01-20 Bright well provides everything a plant needs except for nitrogen and phosphates. These are typically avalable in most tanks from fish wast. If not they can be added seperately I only learned about this a year ago and I have not yet run out of the seachem I currently am using. So I don't have any experience with it. But based on the label it should do well.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002A5X3W/?tag=ff0d01-20 Does not have nickel in it but the amount needed is so small that there might be enough in the food you give your fish. Seachem designed this fertilizer with a low does of the macro nutrients (nitrogen, phosphate, potassium, sulfur, calcium, and magnesium). Typically it is enough for good plant growth. I use this right now but I do add extra phosphate and potassium. My substrate is just gravel. A special plant substrate is not necessary if your have all the nutrients your plants need in the water.

Note both of these fertilizers contain copper. Copper at high levels can kill shrimp. But plants need it to grow. These fertilizer have enough copper to meet the needs of the plants but not enough to harm shrimp. I have used Seachem with shrimp and did get reproduction and normal behavior.

 

[FatGoatWalks]

Hi, I don't have my water parameters to hand so I'll have to post these later.

The lights strip I got was this one: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00ITQKUDY/?tag= which is apparently 7.20 watts? With regards to performance I could not really tell as it was at this point that I decided to tackle my BBA issue, resulting in much pruning back / yanking out and throwing away. There's not a lot left now, which is driving my decision to replant and lay some more substrate - I might not necessarily rule out a complete tank overhaul but as I have three bronze Cory's in there who can out-wit their foolish and clumsy keeper (me) then I am reticent to do this.

My water is from the River Dee basin, we might be 'sandgrounders' in Southport but our water out of the tap comes with an edifying P.H. of 7.75 and a general hardness of around 12 (if memory serves me right, it's been a while since I last tested). For ferts I have been essentially paying lip service to plant nutrition and adding just 5ml of King British general purpose :http://www.kingbritish.co.uk/product/king-british-aquatic-plant-food, every water change - once per week. Again I realise this is an issue I must face if I want to do this properly instead of simply propagating BBA.

With regards to ferts which use Copper, I am at pains to do this having already lost some shrimp last summer when I bought some plants from Pets At Home...it transpires that at the time they were using a pesticide rife in the element and watching £30+ worth of mountain and amano shrimp die before my very eyes was an experience I don't want to repeat. But if you have used Seachem and it not affect shrimp then I may very well give that a try.

I do have an Eheim air pump and stone and was considering putting this back in the tank as I currently have my Fluval U3 on spray bar mode, I thought this might circulate the O2 in a more calm manner than the filter does on its top nozzle setting - it's a bit of a beast and the Rasboras do like 'surfing' on it!

Going back to the lights, an obvious route would be to try and get a new hood and stick some T5s in there - I'm not the most gifted at DIY so i will have a google around and see if anyone has managed to adapt a tank like mine via that method. This is my tank it's essentially this Interpet one but rebranded by Pets At Home.

 

[StevenF]

A couple of things I have noticed with fertilizers are that European brands often don't list the ingredients or the Guarentied anylsis. As a result it is often impossible to know if the fertilizer is complete and has all the nutrients listed. OF the remainder that do list the ingredients or analysis,95% are deficient in at least 4 nutrients. The two I listed are the best ones I know of. And even those are not perfect. For a list of all of the essential nutrients see the link below.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_nutrition

for a long time people have been using the watts per gallon rule for lighting. That worked well in the past when there was only 1 type of bulb available. Today we have at least 3. Furthermore the rule didn't take into account the surface area to be covered in plants. Today the best rules are lumens per square inche or PAR per square inch. Lumens and PAR are light brightness ratings not power consumption rating (watts). But since I have LED in my 5 gallon I can compare my power rating to the one for your lamp. It's not perfect but it should help.I am currently running 12 watts into my 5 gallon (20 liter) tank. Your lamp is 7watts and your tank is bigger. You probably want to aim for a 20 watt light. If possible I would buy one bigger than that with a compatable dimmer. That way you can adjust your light output as needed to get good results. Note if you go too bright you might see a significant change in PH during the day. PH will be low in the morning and high at the endo of the day. This is due to plant nutrient uptake during the day. If you see this reduce your light level to minimize the change.

The PH change is due to CO2 consumption and deficiency. It is a common problem in well fertilized tanks with high light. This is the key reason many people are using CO2. One way to avoid algae is to fertilize the water so plants have a little more than they need for good plant growth. Many also use brighter lights and CO2 to get rapid plant growth. When the plants are growing well plants tend to out compete algae for nutrients.

I do have an Eheim air pump and stone and was considering putting this back in the tank as I currently have my Fluval U3 on spray bar mode, I thought this might circulate the O2 in a more calm manner than the filter does on. its top nozzle setting - it's a bit of a beast and the Rasboras do like 'surfing' on it!

Ipersonally don't like the noise of an airstone. Letting my water fall down sounds more like a small stream and I find that rather pleasent. Mostfilters have a flow adjustment. try adjusting that to suite your fish.

 

[FatGoatWalks]

To be honest I am seriously considering getting another tank instead: the Fluval Roma 90, because in order to upgrade the current tank with regards to lighting i.e. getting real lights as opposed to these bespoke ones which are somewhat underpowered,means having to buy more conventional ones and 'bodge' them in...and I'm not much of a DIY enthusiast!

I see that the Fluval 90 comes with T8 lights as standard. Forum research has shown me that most people generally move from T8-T5, as a lighting newbie I don't know why this is but it may influence my decision. There's a lot, or not a lot to think on, but as the new tank is going to be at least £179 (if I buy new) it's not something I'm going to be rushing into

 

[eaglesaquarium]

T5 lighting is generally more intense than T8 lighting, which in turn is more intense than T12. (Strange, but the smaller diameter bulbs produce more light than the larger ones.)

http://www.hoveyelectric.com/hovey-...12-As-Outdated-As-Your-Granparents-Bingo-Game
This link doesn't address fish tanks, but does give you a sense for the differences in the bulbs for fluorescent lighting.

I would add that a lot of folks also use the T5HO (high output) on planted tanks. And as the name suggests... there is a more concentrated light from the T5HO than the standard T5.