Pump Noise

[AK77]

Hi guys,

I've got an annoying noise whenever I connect a return pump up to the pipework from the sump to the main tank. I'm guessing that its to do with back pressure causing the impelller to vibrate. The return pipe work is all 15mm. I'm wondering if going to 22mm would address the issue? I've tried two pumps now and both of them do it.

Any thoughts or input before I go spending even more money. I just spent £22 on a new pump only for it to make even more noise than the old one

 

[SkiFletch]

What type of pump and can you describe the noise a little more accurately?

 

[AK77]

Hi Ski,

Its like a rattling sound. Neither of the two pumps I have do it when the pipework is removed. One is a Hailea HX4500 and the other is a HX6350. I've tried removing the 15mm pipework and hooking up some regular aquarium hose whose inside diameter is bigger than the outside diameter of the 15mm pipework. The noise virtually disappears. I definitely think its back pressure. It even does it with the tap open on the blow off.

The problem is that my 2000 LPH overflow box isn't draining 2000 LPH... nowhere near it. Its been mis-manufactured by Cleartides. I'm in the process of getting a replacement made. I'm in contact with the vendor I purchased it from who is wanting my units replace and all of his stock.

Still waiting for a response from CT, but it really wouldn't surprise me if a court summons was needed before they do something.

Yet more sodding problems

 

[andywg]

It sounds like pump vibration which is made worse from the rigid piping. The soft pipe maybe deadening the sound somewhat.

 

[AK77]

I think its back pressure that's causing the impeller to rattle. As I shut the tap off on the blow off pipe the sound becomes progressively louder and constant due to the pump being unable to shift the volume of water that it wants to. It's definitely not just vibration, as all pipework that touches anything solid has padding around it.

I've ordered a load of 22mm fittings and will try that. I think it will remove the noise issue. The only problem after that is the fact that the poxy overflow box isn't draining fast enough, so I can't use either of the pumps without a blow off valve until Cleartides pull their finger out and replace my unit.

 

[ReefKing]

I think its back pressure that's causing the impeller to rattle. As I shut the tap off on the blow off pipe the sound becomes progressively louder and constant due to the pump being unable to shift the volume of water that it wants to. It's definitely not just vibration, as all pipework that touches anything solid has padding around it.

I've ordered a load of 22mm fittings and will try that. I think it will remove the noise issue. The only problem after that is the fact that the poxy overflow box isn't draining fast enough, so I can't use either of the pumps without a blow off valve until Cleartides pull their finger out and replace my unit.

Your overflow box has nothing to do with it. It will only pump as much water as the return pump will allow it to. It sounds like the pump isnt strong enough to bring the water back to the tank. What is the gal/hr flow rate for the pump. Also take into effect that the length of piping and number of elbows will drastically reduce the flow rate of pumps.

 

[SkiFletch]

Well the 6530 has 2.3meters of max head pressure. So provided the distance from the top of the water in your sump is 1meter or less you should be ok. If you're trying to pump up too high or through too many fittings, you may be going beyond safe operation for it, hence the rattling. Just a question, did you take the impeller out and inspect it? It's possible a piece of it has broken off...

 

[AK77]

Hi Ski,

Yup I dismantled the pump and inspect the impeller on both pumps. They are both brand new and each of them make a noise when the pipe work is connected to it. I've also tried the other two HX4500 that are in the display tank. They are silent in there but, vibrate the same when attached to the 15mm pipework in the sump.

Reefking, Obviously the overflow box has nothing to do with the impeller noise, that's a bit of a no brainer. I'm not suggesting that it has anything to do with the noise at all. Since its not even connected to the pump there is no way that it could possibly be the cause. What is a pain in the ass is the fact that it was purchased as a 2000 LPH unit. I've since connected a 2500 LPH pump which pumped at 1800LPh at 1.2m and the tank would overflow. I then purchased a 1750 LPH pump (Hx6350) which only pumps about 1000 LPH at 1.2m height. The tank STILL OVERFLOWS. Because of this, I currently have to have a blowoff valve on the pipework to prevent the tank overfilling. I'm still waiting for a response from Cleartides through the vendor I purchased the unit from as to why my "2000 LPH" overflow isnt performing anywhere near this. Its been mismanufactured. Its got a 5mm inlet space and a 20mm drop section, therefore there is a major bottleneck. The space between the front intake section and the drop section should be equal all the way through, however mine isnt anywhere near equal.

With regard to the pump, The 15mm pipework is restricting the flow of water and the back pressure being created in the impeller chamber must be causing it to vibrate or oscillate incorrectly due to being unable to push the amount of water it was designed for, because as soon as the pipework is removed, the pump runs silently.

 

[ReefKing]

I've ordered a load of 22mm fittings and will try that. I think it will remove the noise issue. The only problem after that is the fact that the poxy overflow box isn't draining fast enough, so I can't use either of the pumps without a blow off valve until Cleartides pull their finger out and replace my unit.


I was stating what you said, but since you wanna be an ass about it. Ill leave this one alone and let you figure it out.

 

[AK77]

If you read the thread and my posts it states that the 22mm fittings should address the noise issue due to the increased space to pump the water, therby reducing the back pressure in the impeller chamber. The only problem after that is that I can't use the either of my pumps without having blow off valves because the overflow box which is supposed to be 2000 LPH is not draining anywhere near 2000 LPH. The two are completely seperate problems and obviously the overflow box isn't going to able to affect the return pump.

Thanks for your input anyway

 

[andywg]

I've ordered a load of 22mm fittings and will try that. I think it will remove the noise issue. The only problem after that is the fact that the poxy overflow box isn't draining fast enough, so I can't use either of the pumps without a blow off valve until Cleartides pull their finger out and replace my unit.


I was stating what you said, but since you wanna be an ass about it. Ill leave this one alone and let you figure it out.

The above does quite clearly say his problem is that the overflow is not overflowing at the correct rate, meaning he has to throttle back the amount of water going back into the tank. It is also clear that the 22mm pipe is a different issue.

As to who is being a donkey about it... I shall leave that to others.

 

[AK77]

Today my package of 22mm fittings arrived. 5 elbows, a tee and a tap fitting which connects directly onto the return pump. No messing about with hoses or jubilee clips My luck being well up to par as the tap connector I ordered was out of stock, so they sent a more expensive type with a brass fitting. Brass being copper based meant it was about as useful to me as an ashtray on a motorbike.

I had to go into town to get some 22mm tubing anyway, so I picked up another fitting while I was in Wickes. They'd decided to move everything around down there and as normal, there were no sales assistants in sight. to point you in the right direction.

The 22mm pipework is all hooked up and as suspected, the pump now runs almost silently. No impeller vibrations, so it definitely appears that the 15mm pipe wasn't allowing enough water through, thereby causing back pressure in the impeller chamber, which in turn made it vibrate.

Sooooooo now that's solved. the only problem remains the overflow box. I hooked up a 22 x 15 x 22 tee fitting and attached the tap valve to it as before. Even with it fully open and a good volume of water pumping through it, the overflow is still unable to drain fast enough. I refuse to spend any more money on it, as it would cost about another £10 for a tee piece and a 22mm tap valve.

I'm still waiting to hear back from Cleartides but, I have to say they are perhaps one of the worst companies to deal with. I've had no direct response from them and even the vendor I purchased the overflow from has had to try multiple times to even make contact. I know that he is not alone in this.

All I wanted was a 2000 LPH overflow box. It wasn't a lot to ask for. I paid my money and got something that drains about 600 LPH. Bearing in mind the 1750 LPH pump doesnt even push 1000 LPH at 1.2m and there are 5 elbows and a tap valve fully open... and the Cleartides overflow STILL can't keep up. It's an absolute sodding joke. Part of me wishes the tank had overflowed because I would sue the arse off them.

 

[andywg]

Is it definitely impossible to drill it? (you could always drill the back by just lowering the water level). Then you could put in a nice big 40mm pipework that would more than take 2000LPH.

And I hate to sound all "I told you so", and this is by no means a pop at you AK77, but this is exactly why I always drill. A little late for you, but hopefully others may see this and realise why so many always recommend drilling (and not just the added safety factor).

 

[AK77]

Hi Andy,

No unfortunately. The tank is a Juwel Rio 180 and the glass is only 6mm thick tops and I'd be apprehensive about the glass fracturing. I would prefer a drilled tank. Perhaps if I make my own in the future with 10mm glass, I'll drill that.

There wouldn't be a problem though if the damn overflow box was manufactured correctly. Just goes to show the "quality control" or lack there of up at that place. I'm seriously getting the arse with it.

 

[andywg]

I find drilling thinner glass easier, it takes less time so you get less bored. However, YMMV