Yes, once you mention "livebearers" to a person, they're immediately targeted as being beginners fish. The commercially known ones could be labeled like that. But there are even strains of these commercial known ones that are harder to maintain. But the term "livebearer" shouldn't be labeled as "beginners fish". There are lots of livebearer species that are harder to maintain or even breed. And not all livebearer species have large drops of fry. And there are lots of livebearers that have a longer gestation period. Not all livebearers need hard water. There are lots of livebearers that need lower temperatures instead of moderate or high. Not all livebearers chase and eat their fry. Not all livebearers need to be kept at more females than males. A lot of comments at forums are based on generalization. Which is an incorrect thing to do. The real livebearer nerds among us will understand what I mean. And yes, I'm a proud livebearer nerd as well...Lots of people in the hobby get a bit snobby and dismiss livebearers as "beginner fish"