Post cycle stocking

[Jadzir]

Have read all the information on doing a fish less cycle ( several times ).
Just waiting for my tank to arrive to start the process.
I understand that once complete the tank can be almost fully stocked in one go.
Tank is -
300 litre ( before substrate etc.)
L- 150 cm
D- 38 cm
H- 50cm
After much thought I am going with ember tetras and dwarf Corydora. When the tank is mature I will be adding shrimp.

My question is with the species I want how many of each should I add post cycle ?
Thanks as always for the help

 

[SeaAngel]

I wouldn’t add all at once, myself. Cories are hardy but like a “seasoned” tank. I would add the tetras first, 12 - 20 would be a good start. Then after a week or so add the cories, again at least 6 but more is better. You then have plenty of room for other stock. There is one issue though. Ember tetras should have a PH of 6.6 and cories should be 7.0 - 8.0. Not a big issue but one to consider.

 

[Byron]

I guess we should have the GH and pH here. [BTW, not sure where the pH of 7-8 for Corydoras pygmaeus comes from, but this fish is fine in acidic water comparable to their natural habitat (very soft too).]

When it comes to shoaling fish, it is always wise to add the entire intended group of a species together; they will settle in much faster the more there are. I agree about the "seasoned" tank, but more of them will help them. Same for the Embers (Hyphessobrycon amandae) obviously.

As for numbers--this is a huge tank for these "nano" fish, are the tank dimensions correct? Are any other fish intended later (beyond the shrimp)?

 

[SeaAngel]

I guess we should have the GH and pH here. [BTW, not sure where the pH of 7-8 for Corydoras pygmaeus comes from, but this fish is fine in acidic water comparable to their natural habitat (very soft too).]

When it comes to shoaling fish, it is always wise to add the entire intended group of a species together; they will settle in much faster the more there are. I agree about the "seasoned" tank, but more of them will help them. Same for the Embers (Hyphessobrycon amandae) obviously.

As for numbers--this is a huge tank for these "nano" fish, are the tank dimensions correct? Are any other fish intended later (beyond the shrimp)?

Good point, Byron about adding all of the breed at once. That’s why I said tetras first, then cories. Guess I wasn’t very clear though. Thanks for pointing that out. As far as PH, I have always been told the 7-8 guide and successfully breed several species of corydora at 7.5PH.

 

[Byron]

Good point, Byron about adding all of the breed at once. That’s why I said tetras first, then cories. Guess I wasn’t very clear though. Thanks for pointing that out. As far as PH, I have always been told the 7-8 guide and successfully breed several species of corydora at 7.5PH.

I do not mean this to be argumentative or disrespectful in any way, its just that sometimes my stating of things seems to come across as such.

Fish species have a "preference" which is their natural habitat parameters, and we know they will be at their best if this is provided to them. Their physiology is specifically designed to function best within the natural habitat range. The fact that a species may live, eat and spawn in water contrary to their preference does not mean they are not being impacted; some species can manage this well, while some cannot. We must never forget that "survive" is not the same as "thrive." Like most all species on this planet, fish will attempt to make the most of what they are forced into, good or bad, harmful or not--the will to survive no matter what is extremely strong.

All species of cory occur in very soft water, the GH is (going from memory here) not above 1 or 2 dH for a very few, whereas the rest live in zero hardness. The pH varies, depending upon the water course, and sometimes the season (dry vs wet). Ian Fuller has collected hundreds of cories, and spawned them, over decades. He tells me that he uses RO because it is closest to their needs, though he admits most will live and spawn in somewhat harder water and a more basic pH, but there are limits before the fish are being impacted.

C. pygmaeus occurs in the Rio Madeira system, and appears to be endemic. A study of the water parameters in this system was published in 2013 [link below], with data collected throughout 2009 and 2010, thus (the authors point out) covering both wet and dry seasons. It is in Portuguese (I assume, rather than Spanish) with an Abstract in English. The white water portions of the system had a pH range of 6 to 7, and the blackwater tributaries "a more acidic" pH.

(PDF) Biogeochemistry of the Madeira River basin (researchgate.net)

 

[SeaAngel]

I do not mean this to be argumentative or disrespectful in any way, its just that sometimes my stating of things seems to come across as such.

Fish species have a "preference" which is their natural habitat parameters, and we know they will be at their best if this is provided to them. Their physiology is specifically designed to function best within the natural habitat range. The fact that a species may live, eat and spawn in water contrary to their preference does not mean they are not being impacted; some species can manage this well, while some cannot. We must never forget that "survive" is not the same as "thrive." Like most all species on this planet, fish will attempt to make the most of what they are forced into, good or bad, harmful or not--the will to survive no matter what is extremely strong.

All species of cory occur in very soft water, the GH is (going from memory here) not above 1 or 2 dH for a very few, whereas the rest live in zero hardness. The pH varies, depending upon the water course, and sometimes the season (dry vs wet). Ian Fuller has collected hundreds of cories, and spawned them, over decades. He tells me that he uses RO because it is closest to their needs, though he admits most will live and spawn in somewhat harder water and a more basic pH, but there are limits before the fish are being impacted.

C. pygmaeus occurs in the Rio Madeira system, and appears to be endemic. A study of the water parameters in this system was published in 2013 [link below], with data collected throughout 2009 and 2010, thus (the authors point out) covering both wet and dry seasons. It is in Portuguese (I assume, rather than Spanish) with an Abstract in English. The white water portions of the system had a pH range of 6 to 7, and the blackwater tributaries "a more acidic" pH.

(PDF) Biogeochemistry of the Madeira River basin (researchgate.net)

Thank you. I respect both you and Ian Fuller and have learned a great deal from you both.

 

[Jadzir]

I guess we should have the GH and pH here. [BTW, not sure where the pH of 7-8 for Corydoras pygmaeus comes from, but this fish is fine in acidic water comparable to their natural habitat (very soft too).]

When it comes to shoaling fish, it is always wise to add the entire intended group of a species together; they will settle in much faster the more there are. I agree about the "seasoned" tank, but more of them will help them. Same for the Embers (Hyphessobrycon amandae) obviously.

As for numbers--this is a huge tank for these "nano" fish, are the tank dimensions correct? Are any other fish intended later (beyond the shrimp)?

I guess we should have the GH and pH here. [BTW, not sure where the pH of 7-8 for Corydoras pygmaeus comes from, but this fish is fine in acidic water comparable to their natural habitat (very soft too).]

When it comes to shoaling fish, it is always wise to add the entire intended group of a species together; they will settle in much faster the more there are. I agree about the "seasoned" tank, but more of them will help them. Same for the Embers (Hyphessobrycon amandae) obviously.

As for numbers--this is a huge tank for these "nano" fish, are the tank dimensions correct? Are any other fish intended later (beyond the

I guess we should have the GH and pH here. [BTW, not sure where the pH of 7-8 for Corydoras pygmaeus comes from, but this fish is fine in acidic water comparable to their natural habitat (very soft too).]

When it comes to shoaling fish, it is always wise to add the entire intended group of a species together; they will settle in much faster the more there are. I agree about the "seasoned" tank, but more of them will help them. Same for the Embers (Hyphessobrycon amandae) obviously.

As for numbers--this is a huge tank for these "nano" fish, are the tank dimensions correct? Are any other fish intended later (beyond the shrimp)?

After a lot of thought decided to go with just those fish. Like the idea of larger numbers of a couple of species. The tank dimensions are correct.

 

[Essjay]

The hardness is fine for cories and ember tetras.

See this thread

Water report - brain overload !

Decided to get a water report from my local supplier. So much information on there. Think I have picked out the relevant parts. Ph 8 Hardness german 4dh Hardness total 71mg/l Looking at this it rules out some of the fish I was planning on. Still want a community tank of small fish with bottom...

www.fishforums.net

 

[Byron]

After a lot of thought decided to go with just those fish. Like the idea of larger numbers of a couple of species. The tank dimensions are correct.

OK, then given the tank size and just these two "nano" species (plus shrimp, understood), to answer your question of numbers of each, you want a couple hundred. I would say 150-200 of each species, Corydoras pygmaeus and Hyphessobrycon amandae. You would still have space for another shoaling species of similar "nano" size, or even two more species. But without such numbers you will scarcely see these fish. I have a group of both of these species in a 30g 75cm long tank, along with a group of Paracheirodon simulans, and a group of Nannostomus eques. I still have to get close to the tank and really look to see the pygmy cories. BTW, in case you may not realize it, this cory species will spend more time in the upper water than most of the medium-sized species; and it likes to shoal around with small characins--my pygmies are very often mixed in with the Embers or the green neons.

Obviously finding a tank of 150-200 of either species may or may not be possible, depending upon local stores (or ordering online?) so get as many as you can from the tank in the store, and then as many from the next tank of that species (same or another store), etc., even if the second/third tanks are acquired another day.

 

[Jadzir]

OK, then given the tank size and just these two "nano" species (plus shrimp, understood), to answer your question of numbers of each, you want a couple hundred. I would say 150-200 of each species, Corydoras pygmaeus and Hyphessobrycon amandae. You would still have space for another shoaling species of similar "nano" size, or even two more species. But without such numbers you will scarcely see these fish. I have a group of both of these species in a 30g 75cm long tank, along with a group of Paracheirodon simulans, and a group of Nannostomus eques. I still have to get close to the tank and really look to see the pygmy cories. BTW, in case you may not realize it, this cory species will spend more time in the upper water than most of the medium-sized species; and it likes to shoal around with small characins--my pygmies are very often mixed in with the Embers or the green neons.

Obviously finding a tank of 150-200 of either species may or may not be possible, depending upon local stores (or ordering online?) so get as many as you can from the tank in the store, and then as many from the next tank of that species (same or another store), etc., even if the second/third tanks are acquired another day.

Thanks for the information. Have spoken to my lfs and they can order in bulfor me.
Seems like a lot of fish even for micro ones.
Do I not need to apply the standard 1 cm/ litre guidance ?

 

[itiwhetu]

These fish will breed in this tank as long as it is well planted. You will find you most likely only need to buy 50 of each and then let nature do the rest.

 

[Byron]

Thanks for the information. Have spoken to my lfs and they can order in bulfor me.
Seems like a lot of fish even for micro ones.
Do I not need to apply the standard 1 cm/ litre guidance ?

No, that guide is sometimes helpful, but here of no benefit. But I just looked into this again as something caught my attention.

The dimensions entered into the calculator here (TFF) comes up with 285 liters or 75 US gallons. The latter number surprised me, as this is a 5-foot (150 cm) length tank. We use metric in Canada and have since the late 1970's, but I went to school/high school before then, and have never forgotten imperial measure which I still understand better. I've no idea how warm 19C is, but I know immediately what the equivalent 66F will feel like!

So, my apology, but I want to revise my suggestion here. Start with 100 of each. See how you like them; in the back of my mind I still think you will be thinking of additional species before long, and you can always add them or increase these two. I am assuming plants, and good floating plants--or you will not see much of either species.

 

[OliveFish05]

I will just say, my Pygmy Cories are very shy. I have 6 Pygmy Cories and never see them, but I have 3 Cory Hastatus and they are out and about swimming around, they even school with my bloodfin tetras who are 3x their size! Pygmy Cories have very subtle markings and blend in extremely well with sand, where as other kinds of Pygmy Cories, such as hastatus or habrosus, have very defined, dark markings and you may enjoy being able to see them better

 

[Jadzir]

No, that guide is sometimes helpful, but here of no benefit. But I just looked into this again as something caught my attention.

The dimensions entered into the calculator here (TFF) comes up with 285 liters or 75 US gallons. The latter number surprised me, as this is a 5-foot (150 cm) length tank. We use metric in Canada and have since the late 1970's, but I went to school/high school before then, and have never forgotten imperial measure which I still understand better. I've no idea how warm 19C is, but I know immediately what the equivalent 66F will feel like!

So, my apology, but I want to revise my suggestion here. Start with 100 of each. See how you like them; in the back of my mind I still think you will be thinking of additional species before long, and you can always add them or increase these two. I am assuming plants, and good floating plants--or you will not see much of either species.

Planning on lots of plants including floating ones.

 

[Jadzir]

I will just say, my Pygmy Cories are very shy. I have 6 Pygmy Cories and never see them, but I have 3 Cory Hastatus and they are out and about swimming around, they even school with my bloodfin tetras who are 3x their size! Pygmy Cories have very subtle markings and blend in extremely well with sand, where as other kinds of Pygmy Cories, such as hastatus or habrosus, have very defined, dark markings and you may enjoy being able to see them better

Habrosus is the species I have been looking at.