Poorly betta

[Daft punk]

Please can someone advise.. I have male and female betta fish that i have been battling to save- (I believe white spot) I was advised to get a treatment containing formalin and malachite green but all that was available the time was an anti white spot treatment containing formaldehyde and malachite green..I was advised to add aquarium salt also.. i have done the second dose of treatment, I saw the pH was off which I rectified and kh remains 0, I have one fish who is very poorly lying on bottom if the tank but trying to fight to get well I can see- what else can I do to help him.. and now I been told that Salt changes your pH and stops the fishes bodily functions from working properly so should not have added it..it this right and if so what should I do to remove it..

 

[PorshaF]

Heres a very helpful link, when I had a betta with ich, i did the moving method listed in this article. That betta is still alive and well

What is ICH?

This is a common question that is often asked, what is ich and how is it recognisable and what causes it? The real term is ICHTHYOPHTHIRIASIS. OR commonly known as white spot. It is an extremely comon parasite that affects aquarium fish. It is highly infectious and potentially lethal and...

www.fishforums.net

 

[coriesinhawaii]

Could you provide a picture and your ammonia/nitrite/nitrate levels?

 

[Daft punk]

Yes of course..all levels are 0.. I can post pics but its hard to see what I mean in still pics..can I post video?

 

[Daft punk]

Heres a very helpful link, when I had a betta with ich, i did the moving method listed in this article. That betta is still alive and well

What is ICH?

This is a common question that is often asked, what is ich and how is it recognisable and what causes it? The real term is ICHTHYOPHTHIRIASIS. OR commonly known as white spot. It is an extremely comon parasite that affects aquarium fish. It is highly infectious and potentially lethal and...

www.fishforums.net

I've been told it doesn't seem like itch and that he would have improved after 2nd dose of treatment if it was..dont know what to think tbh if I've treated him for the wrong ailment and added salt wen wasn't meant too would he be like this... ?

 

[Daft punk]

Could you provide a picture and your ammonia/nitrite/nitrate levels?

All levels have been fine apart from spike in pH after treatment (which i was told would be the salt I added) all levels are now fine only the kh is 0

 

[Daft punk]

I dont seem to be able to upload videos.. its his behaviour more than any visual like colouring- he is slumped over like he is dead or about to die..leaning to side, looking at floor then when he sees me he swims around like he is fine..his breathing slows right down, like he has no energy at all, I did see some irratic behaviour mid water like he itching (one occasion), thought I saw a few white spect but hard to tell cus the were gone then..
He looks like he's slowly dying but it's been 3 days now.. stopped eating yesterday

I have just removed another dead female from my main tank no real symptoms to see, noticed last note wo were lethargic last night and 3 have white poo... one girl look very unwell in there now also (pale and tail clamped)

 

[Essjay]

To post videos you need to upload it to YouTube then post the link on here.

 

[coriesinhawaii]

Is he swollen at all like he has dropsy? If there’s no outward signs of infection like lesions or fin damage it’s possible it could be an internal infection. Or he might just be passing from old age/natural causes. I don’t think the salt would have caused it unless you overdosed it or something. But you could do a large water change to get rid of a lot of it if you’re not sure.

The only thing I could think you could do at this point is use an antibiotic effective for internal infections in fish that are not eating (kanamycin would be a good choice). But it depends on how aggressive you want to be. It might not even be an infection and/or the kanamycin might not be the right med to treat it and then you would just be subjecting the betta to more stress instead of a peaceful passing. It’s always a tough decision to make.

 

[Essjay]

Unfortunately Daft punk is in the UK so antibiotics are only available through a vet's prescription.

 

[coriesinhawaii]

Oh wow. I knew aquarium medications were limited in the UK but I didn’t realize they weren’t available at all.

 

[Essjay]

It's just antibiotics. To prevent misuse, they are only available on prescription, whether for humans or animals. If a doctor or vet thinks an antibiotics is what's needed they have no hesitation in prescribing them. With fish though, there are few vets who are trained in their care - dogs and cats, yes but not fish.
Antibiotics are not available over the counter as people would buy them to treat diseases which they don't work on and this leads to drug resistant bacteria. My mother used to work as a doctor's receptionist and she told of people who would come in and say they needed to see a doctor as they had a cold and wanted an antibiotic. If these people could have bought antibiotics over the counter, they'd take them every time they had a sniffle.

 

[coriesinhawaii]

Well here goes....I know I’ll probably get blasted for this but.....

I’m aware of the potential for the development of resistance when antibiotics are misused (I’m a pharmacist) and I would certainly never suggest having antibiotics available over the counter for people. But for fish I think making them completely inaccessible without a costly visit to a vet (who is often ill-equipped to correctly diagnose the illness anyway as you pointed out) defeats the purpose. What good does it do to have effective antibiotics in the first place if they’re all but inaccessible? Many infections in fish require fast action to be treated in time and waiting for a vet visit could easily make the difference. And forget about waiting for susceptibility testing in all but the mildest infections. There’s gotta be a better way to go about it.

I imagine the biggest threat for the development of antibiotic resistance in the aquarium world would be large scale breeders and pet stores treating all of their fish prophylacticly (“just in case” to prevent infection) and not from Joe Smoe down the road who treated his aquarium with antibiotics when the real problem was he just needed to improve his tank maintenance. A middle ground where large scale antibiotic prophylaxis is discouraged (for example by prohibiting the sale of bulk packages) while they remain accessible for individual use makes more sense to me.

 

[carligraceee]

Well here goes....I know I’ll probably get blasted for this but.....

I’m aware of the potential for the development of resistance when antibiotics are misused (I’m a pharmacist) and I would certainly never suggest having antibiotics available over the counter for people. But for fish I think making them completely inaccessible without a costly visit to a vet (who is often ill-equipped to correctly diagnose the illness anyway as you pointed out) defeats the purpose. What good does it do to have effective antibiotics in the first place if they’re all but inaccessible? Many infections in fish require fast action to be treated in time and waiting for a vet visit could easily make the difference. And forget about waiting for susceptibility testing in all but the mildest infections. There’s gotta be a better way to go about it.

I imagine the biggest threat for the development of antibiotic resistance in the aquarium world would be large scale breeders and pet stores treating all of their fish prophylacticly (“just in case” to prevent infection) and not from Joe Smoe down the road who treated his aquarium with antibiotics when the real problem was he just needed to improve his tank maintenance. A middle ground where large scale antibiotic prophylaxis is discouraged (for example by prohibiting the sale of bulk packages) while they remain accessible for individual use makes more sense to me.

Living in the US really does put things into perspective. We have a lot of privledge when compared to even other first world countries.

Anyways, has the OP noted any pine-coned scales? I really think its dropsy based on their description.

 

[Essjay]

I don't the UK is alone in this policy, I think all of the EU is the same. And possibly other countries as well.
It is difficult to legislate saying human antibiotics are prescription only but animal antibiotics are over the counter. It is much easier to say all antibiotics are prescription only.