Planted Aquarium Co2 Help?

sparkus88

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Hi I am new to fish keepingand want to setup a natural aquarium with a reasonable amount of live plants. I have a Jewel Rio 240 tank. I have been looking into plant care and got stuck on co2. I can't afford a proper co2 setup at the moment but want to know would something like flourish excel work ok with my tank? What about the system where you produce your own co2?
Thanks
Mark
 
Quit worrying about the CO2. That is the expensive realm of plant enthusiasts. If you just want healthy plants to improve the appearance of your tank, try taking the low tech road. With moderately low light and a rich substrate, you can have many of the easier plants with no CO2 and no flourish excel. I used some potting soil covered with fine gravel / coarse sand to set up this tank. It has never seen CO2 added or any other fertilizer. Instead I feed my fish generously and let the fish waste and small amount of decaying food feed the plants everything they need. The lighting is intense enough on that tank that people will try to tell me I can't avoid algae problems and must have CO2 to survive. I say baloney, the tank almost looks after itself.
XenotaeniaCrop.jpg
 
I add liquid carbon to my tank and get extremely good plant growth.
 
Quit worrying about the CO2.

I would tend to agree with this. While you can play around with carbon dioxide and precisely dose out the right amount of fertiliser -- you don't have to! The biggest myth in the freshwater hobby right now is that the high-tech Amano route is the only way to create a successful planted aquarium. It is not.

The most important thing to remember is that practically all aquarium plants are weeds. In other words, short-lived, fast-growing opportunistic plants that occupy the same sorts of niches as dandelions and brambles do on land. They may well have preferences, but they're mostly adaptable enough to put up with a range of conditions if they have to. The single biggest reason people fail with plants is insufficient light. Get that right, and you're 90% of the way there. The rest is icing on the cake.

If you're having trouble with plants, look at lighting first. Almost always, the default lighting in all-in-one aquaria is too weak, so adding a tube or two to the hood will make a big difference. Another mistake is to start off with plants ill-suited to your aquarium conditions. Like fish, some plants like hard water and some prefer soft. Vallisneria for example tends to do badly in soft water. Few plants appreciate very soft water. Many plants are coldwater rather than tropical species, so that's another consideration.

The quality of the substrate is endlessly debated, but in practice you can get good results from either a rich substrate or a poor one. Like OldMan47 I tend to go with the pond soil/sand combination simply because it's reliable, cheap, and easy to pull together using stuff I can get from the garden centre in my home town. But plain gravel can work, though you will need to use fertilisers on a periodic basis to make up the difference, either added to the gravel or the water. Fish waste will provide some nitrate and phosphate, and ammonia is used directly by the fish. But you will need to add a fertiliser than provides trace elements like iron and magnesium.

By far the simplest approach is to combine floating plants with epiphytes. Floating Indian fern and Amazon frogbit provide hiding places and shade for surface dwellers like killifish, livebearers and halfbeaks. They somehow limit algae as well. Epiphytes are things that grown attached to wood, so obviously they couldn't care less about the substrate. Anubias barteri, Java fern and Java moss are the "big three" species in this class, though there are some others. These are slow-growing, long-lived plants that provide instant greenery. Buy them pre-attached to bogwood and you can arrange them however you want, immediately creating hiding places for cichlids, loaches and catfish. Since floating plants get their CO2 from the air, and epiphytes grow so slowly they don't need additional CO2, you have a nice mix of plants that don't need CO2 fertilisations any more than they need fancy substrates. What could be better?

Cheers, Neale
 
Quit worrying about the CO2. That is the expensive realm of plant enthusiasts. If you just want healthy plants to improve the appearance of your tank, try taking the low tech road. With moderately low light and a rich substrate, you can have many of the easier plants with no CO2 and no flourish excel. I used some potting soil covered with fine gravel / coarse sand to set up this tank. It has never seen CO2 added or any other fertilizer. Instead I feed my fish generously and let the fish waste and small amount of decaying food feed the plants everything they need. The lighting is intense enough on that tank that people will try to tell me I can't avoid algae problems and must have CO2 to survive. I say baloney, the tank almost looks after itself.
XenotaeniaCrop.jpg

thats a really nice looking tank :good:

I kind of wish I had put a substrate underneath my sand now..! Do you think a tank with less than half as many plants as that can still flourish as well as yours in a sand substrate of 1.5" depth?
 
LOL even as someone who messes with the EI ferts and pressurized CO2 I agree with Oldman. Its not needed by any means to run well planted tank. With those items all you run is a high maintenance and generally fast growing planted tank. For example I just got done with finals yesterday :hyper:! None of my tanks have been touched in like 2 weeks except feeding the fish. My high tech tanks look horrible right now, these tanks are pretty dependent on ferts and weekly 50% water changes and trimming. The plants have been killing each other this last week. A big mat of them on the surface blocking out all the light. I literally got to push plants out of the way to make a spot where the fish can eat. My one low tech tank that sees no ferts and no CO2 looks totally fine.

I would suggest using some organic potting soil beneath sand, because sand is a very inert(low nutrient) soil. Trust me you will be happy you did.
 
How much soil would you reckon? Ive got 1 240l tank on the way and 45lb of Caribsea Purewhite marinesand as my substrate (yes its fine for tropicals ive checked :p)
 
If you have a fertile substrate that runs at least 1.5 cm thick, it will be plenty by the time you add some gravel or other cover to prevent a mess in the tank's water. My tank runs at who knows what chemical concentration. I checked it before a water change, after over 4 months with no water change, and found it had no ammonia, no nitrites, 10 ppm of nitrates and a pH similar to my tap water. OK so why did I do a water change? The answer is simple. My plants had removed all of the trace minerals that came in with my tap water by then. That meant I either needed to do a large water change to replenish minerals or go out and get some trace fertilizers for my plants.
As Mikaila said, the plants can very well grow enough in a few weeks to block much of the light from my 2.5 WPG lighting system on that tank. That means that I must either move things aside or accept the fact that some plants will get less light than I would like. I often opt to remove a few plants and sell them on at a fish club auction. I find that vigorous and healthy plants demand a premium at my club's auctions. The second picture I posted is a tank that has a solid cover of duckweed on the surface that really limits the growth rate of the planted plants. Since duckweed is one of the best nitrogen sponges that exist, I do not worry much about ammonia in a tank covered with that plant either.
Recently I have started using some "water lettuce" instead of duckweed on some tanks and have been very satisfied by it. A small sample of 3 or 4 plants has grown to completely cover a 55 gallon tank in about 6 months. The roots from the plant are extending almost all the way to the bottom of that tank and are providing great cover for the X eiseni fry in the tank. I recently took 6 or so plants outdoors to my summer tub, 150 gallon stock tank, and it is becoming established before I add fish to the tub for the summer. I intend to try my Characodon lateralis in the tub this year to see if I can get them to reproduce freely, as the other fish in that tub have done in past years.
 
Good info thanks :good:

Although I meant that I had already added a sand substrate, but wish I had put a fertile substrate underneath it now!

I was told about using card to pushin up the sand and placing substrate below it but wouldn't this make a huge mess?
 
I have never tried to add a fertile substrate below an existing substrate. Although it may be possible to do so, I have no idea how I would go about actually doing it.
 

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