Plant Problems..

[TheRedDarren]

Hi,
I have a new (6 week set up) but it was bought second hand (4 year old) so some aspects are mature, others are not. I am running into a few problems, from water quality issues to algae and would like a some seasoned fishkeepers points of view...

Set up is a four foot tank (approx 220l). Two T8 tubes, 40w each, a powerglo and an aquaglo both with reflectors, lights are on for 12 hours a day. Substrate is 3 bags of Carribsea ecocomplete. Filtration is one Fluval 305, of the three compartments, the top two are filled with ceramic rings and the bottom one is chocablock with peat in pair of tights to lower PH. Turnover I would guess at approx 500lph.

Hardscape is a couple of inert rocks and slate for caves and also I have 8 pieces of medium bogwood.

I have rescaped and replanted the whole thing, there are 3 large Java fern, 1 medium Anubias, 3 large crypt. Wendtii, approx 25 small unidentified crypts, 40 odd small carpeting plantlets (I think pygmy chain sword) and finally a good clump of java moss covering about 12" of bogwood. Plants cover a good 70% of the tank/substrate.

I dose Easylife Profito complete (20ml) a week and Easylife Iron (10ml) a week, although I only bought the iron last Saturday.

Fish are: 20 neons, 4 bolivians, 4 apistos, 9 cories and 6 ottos. A few snails too, the free ones kindly given when you buy plants
Feeding: I feed live foods once a week, frozen maybe twice a week and flake/pellets/wafers the rest, I feed every day reasonably generously, but certainly not overfeeding. It all disappears within 10 mins or so. I don't have a fast day but think I will from now to see if it benefits the tank.

Problems are:

• Poor plant health.
  My plants, which were in fine health are now showing signs of degradation. The Pygmy chain is yellowing and dying slowly. Holes are appearing in the leaves of the ferns and Anubias (Anubias is only a fortnight old and was perfect) and are attracting beard/hair or thread algae of some sort, and the ferns are browning badly. Crypts have gone through the "melt" stage and now appear to be ok, although they too are attracting the beard/hair or thread algae. The algae seems to have appeared since the addition of the reflectors.
  
• Water quality issues.
  Occasional traces of Ammonia (leading to Diatom Algae, eaten by my Ottos) but not Nitrite, Nitrate seems to be about 40ppm at the end of the week when I do my 40% WC. These results are with an API liquid test kit so make of that what you will.
  
• Algae.
  I have very dark thick algae on the Anubias, thread/beard or whatever it is on both Anubias and ferns. It seems I have more than one type of this stuff, some sprouts multiple threads from a small "heart", there are long (3~5") single strands, also there is brown algae colonising the roots of the buds appearing at the tips of the fern leaves. Diatom "everywhere" if it weren't for the Ottos.
  
• Flucuating PH.
  I'll tackle this first, I'm going to remove the peat and add filter floss to eliminate the large amount of tiny floating debris, then lower the PH ( 7.8 from the tap) using either C02 in the tank or alder cones in the filter. I will find a way to lower PH prior to the WC to stop the swings, possibly using PH down? The Ph fluctuates from about 7.4 after a WC to 7.0ish by the end of the week. (rough figures from the top of my head).
  
• Possible poor circulation.
  The 305 is listed as having 1000lph but we know that this is a highly optimistic figure, after added media I reckon 500l would be a fair guess, the end of the tank with the inlet has good circulation, but the inlet it stuck in a position where the flow is straight at the front of the tank, so the other end by the outlet seems to have very slow flow, although this is the end with the ferns and crypts so it might not be a big issue.

I have a C02 unit on the way from a friend, its a pressurised system, I believe its the JBL 602. I will install when it arrives.

I think thats all, thanks if you've mananged to read all that! Let me know what you think.

 

[fishyfeet]

you are on the right tracks, how long do you leave your lights on, i have mine of a timer this helps reduce the algae, there will always be a little but it will take over and grow on everything if it get out of control the other thing that help a lot are lots of fast growing plants, see my signature and thats after ive pulled out lots, ive get so many spreading that i have to sell them on by the bagfull, if you want a bag full let me know, plants are, eloda, vallis, wisteria, limpholia, java fern, anubias, and a few others i dont know the name of. di

 

[TheRedDarren]

Hehe! theres always a detail left out somewhere! I've edited the main post now, lights are on 12 hours a day.

 

[fishyfeet]

well i find that increases the algae, so plants need 12 hours and do algae but algae needs 12 constant hours of light, and plants are fine with two lots of six hours with a break. So i have my lights on a timer 7 - 1 and 3 - 9 but you can do it how you want to suit the hours you are at home. Def more fast growing plants and less light. di

 

[kyleb2003]

A lot of plant keepers restrict the light to 6-8 hours per day. I have mine on for 8 hours. Flow is important in a planted tank and 'dead spots' where the flow is poor can lead to increased algae growth in those areas. Think about adding a powerhead up the other end to the filter outlet to increase flow. And the plant health may be due to it being a new set up or because the balance of what they need being off. They'll need a balance of light, Co2 and fertilisers (not necessarily in order of importance) in order to grow healthily and more = more growth. An imbalance can lead to algae growth.

 

[L_Plates]

Hi,
I have a new (6 week set up) but it was bought second hand (4 year old) so some aspects are mature, others are not. I am running into a few problems, from water quality issues to algae and would like a some seasoned fishkeepers points of view...

Set up is a four foot tank (approx 220l). Two T8 tubes, 40w each, a powerglo and an aquaglo both with reflectors, lights are on for 12 hours a day. Substrate is 3 bags of Carribsea ecocomplete. Filtration is one Fluval 305, of the three compartments, the top two are filled with ceramic rings and the bottom one is chocablock with peat in pair of tights to lower PH. Turnover I would guess at approx 500lph.

Hardscape is a couple of inert rocks and slate for caves and also I have 8 pieces of medium bogwood.

I have rescaped and replanted the whole thing, there are 3 large Java fern, 1 medium Anubias, 3 large crypt. Wendtii, approx 25 small unidentified crypts, 40 odd small carpeting plantlets (I think pygmy chain sword) and finally a good clump of java moss covering about 12" of bogwood. Plants cover a good 70% of the tank/substrate.

I dose Easylife Profito complete (20ml) a week and Easylife Iron (10ml) a week, although I only bought the iron last Saturday.

Fish are: 20 neons, 4 bolivians, 4 apistos, 9 cories and 6 ottos. A few snails too, the free ones kindly given when you buy plants
Feeding: I feed live foods once a week, frozen maybe twice a week and flake/pellets/wafers the rest, I feed every day reasonably generously, but certainly not overfeeding. It all disappears within 10 mins or so. I don't have a fast day but think I will from now to see if it benefits the tank.

Problems are:

• Poor plant health.
  My plants, which were in fine health are now showing signs of degradation. The Pygmy chain is yellowing and dying slowly. Holes are appearing in the leaves of the ferns and Anubias (Anubias is only a fortnight old and was perfect) and are attracting beard/hair or thread algae of some sort, and the ferns are browning badly. Crypts have gone through the "melt" stage and now appear to be ok, although they too are attracting the beard/hair or thread algae. The algae seems to have appeared since the addition of the reflectors.
  
  You have nearly 2 watts per gallon already even without the reflectors so it may be an idea to remove one or both of them and see if this helps any as you say it started after you added the reflectors. Also 12 hours a day for lights in quite a long time, i run mine for 6-7 hrs a day so it also might be an idea to reduce the hours slightly as well.
  
  Yellowing / Browning of plants is usually a sign of not enough nutrition. I have not used the products that you are using but again it you are seeing this possibly up the amount you dose ?
  
  Also algae can be caused my decaying plants whether its through lack of Ferts or Co2. If your plants are not getting enough of either they can start to degrade and algae can appear.
  
  
• Water quality issues.
  Occasional traces of Ammonia (leading to Diatom Algae, eaten by my Ottos) but not Nitrite, Nitrate seems to be about 40ppm at the end of the week when I do my 40% WC. These results are with an API liquid test kit so make of that what you will.
  
• Algae.
  I have very dark thick algae on the Anubias, thread/beard or whatever it is on both Anubias and ferns. It seems I have more than one type of this stuff, some sprouts multiple threads from a small "heart", there are long (3~5") single strands, also there is brown algae colonising the roots of the buds appearing at the tips of the fern leaves. Diatom "everywhere" if it weren't for the Ottos.
  
  Each type of algea can be caused by different things have a look here, http/www.theplantedtank.co.uk/algae.htm as i am no expert.
  
• Flucuating PH.
  I'll tackle this first, I'm going to remove the peat and add filter floss to eliminate the large amount of tiny floating debris, then lower the PH ( 7.8 from the tap) using either C02 in the tank or alder cones in the filter. I will find a way to lower PH prior to the WC to stop the swings, possibly using PH down? The Ph fluctuates from about 7.4 after a WC to 7.0ish by the end of the week. (rough figures from the top of my head).
  
• Possible poor circulation.
  The 305 is listed as having 1000lph but we know that this is a highly optimistic figure, after added media I reckon 500l would be a fair guess, the end of the tank with the inlet has good circulation, but the inlet it stuck in a position where the flow is straight at the front of the tank, so the other end by the outlet seems to have very slow flow, although this is the end with the ferns and crypts so it might not be a big issue.

More circulation would definitely not do any harm and could help. People aim for a 10x turnover per hour but if this is what your tanks needs i do not know but as i said it wont do any harm in trying.

I have a C02 unit on the way from a friend, its a pressurised system, I believe its the JBL 602. I will install when it arrives.

I think thats all, thanks if you've mananged to read all that! Let me know what you think.

Im no expert and i am still learning myself, what i have written above is what i have done in the past. Worked well for me.

The boys and girls in the know will be along shortly i am sure.

LP

 

[coldcazzie]

If it were me (and I'm in a similar position to LP in that I'm still learning), I would:
1. Cut back to lighting period to 6 hours until you can get things sorted.
2. Remove the reflectors. Both of these things increase light. More light = more need for nutrients and co2 = more degredation if they dont get it.
3. Easylife Profito only contains trace elements, not macros (nitrogen and phosphorus). My thoughts would be that for that much light you would need to be adding macro nutrients as well. Hence, dropping your light would probably help. Also, if you intend to add co2, then you'll definitely need to add macros.
4. I wouldn't use pH adjusters. What is the hardness of your water? It could be simply that you have slightly too much peat in the fitler. A pH fluctuation is less of an issue than a hardness fluctuation.

Also, as an aside....

plants need 12 hours and do algae but algae needs 12 constant hours of light, and plants are fine with two lots of six hours with a break

Pretty sure (like 98%) that that's not true. In fact, algae finds it much easier to adapt to shorter bursts of light than higher plants. Also, plant photsynthesis decreases after about 8-9 hours, so they don't need a full 12 hours either. That's not to say 12 hours is bad, just that they can manage just fine with less. I would start with 6, and then slowly increase the amount of light once problems have been sorted out.

 

[CrazyAirborne]

first thing i noticed wrong was your 12 hours of light, i agree with above, take it down to 6-8 and throw a koralia powerhead in there.

 

[TheRedDarren]

Ok, well there is only algae in the areas where there is a decent current, so I guess that circulation isn't such an issue then. The browning and holeing of plants does suggest lack of nutrition though, and I'll tackle the algae by removing the reflectors and reducing lights to 8 hours a day.

So... Up the nutrients slightly and lower the lighting.
Sound good?

 

[coldcazzie]

Sounds good as a start, give it a couple of weeks and report back

 

[TheRedDarren]

Sounds good as a start, give it a couple of weeks and report back

 

[L_Plates]

Goodluck buddy, keep us posted.

LP