PH tapwater 7.8.. tank 8.2

[littleme1969]

Having had trouble with keeping guppies alive a bought a more high level test kit for PH as it was showing up about 8.5 on the broadrange test.
The new result from the high end is 8.2. But I tested the tapwater and its about 7.6 What in my tank could be causing this rise?
I have a fine gravel on the base (not couloured see pic of my tank below) A mixture of live plants. one resin bridge. and an assortment of scottish river bed pebbles which are different sizes and made from different rock. Also a few small terracota pots for hiding places.
I have just added one new piece of mopani wood and 2 small used pieces.
The tank is made from plastic rather than glass.

Could it be the rocks/pebbles and what type of rock they are or the gravel maybe? They were ones I already had and I boiled and scrubbed them .

Help .. this higher PH is what is killing my guppies , having read up its known as PH shock! it weakens their imune system and so allows other problems such as fin rot /dopsy in which is what 4 of my females have died of within a few days of getting them.

 

[clutterydrawer]

do you know that those pebbles are tank safe? what kind of rock are they? have you done the vinegar test?

if they are an unsafe type of rock they will affect the water whether you clean them or not, as it is the actual composition of the rock which can affect the pH, not the dirt etc. on the surface.

 

[littleme1969]

What is the vinegar test?
Forgive me I'm stupid and a bit of a newbie to this.
I think I need to remove the Pebbles what should I do then with regard to water changes to bring down the PH slowly so not to upset the other fish?

 

[clutterydrawer]

The vinegar test is where you take the suspect pebble (i think it would be best if it was dry) and drip vinegar onto it. If it "fizzes", you've got your culprit.

A page on Aquarium Safe Rockssays to use distilled white vinegar, but also says that muriatic acid would be better. Sadly I have no idea what muriatic acid is and have asked my parents who are both science teachers and neither of them have heard of it. damn.


However...you could try a different way. Maybe if you got two bowls of tapwater, tested the pH of them both, added a pebble to one, and tested the pH a while later, you would be able to find out if the pebble had affected the pH?

I'm not sure about how to adjust it for the other fish....do you do regular water changes with tapwater anyway? and how much?

 

[cation]

Muriatic acid is an old name for Hydrochloric acid. (HCl). One would need to be quite careful with it - It's not Hydrofloric acid or anything, but it can still hurt you plenty. I would recommend vinegar, unless you have two science teacher parents, in which case they can show you how to safely use HCl in a hood!

 

[clutterydrawer]

Muriatic acid is an old name for Hydrochloric acid. (HCl).

ta for that, it has been annoying me


sounds like you should stick with the vinegar littleme1969

 

[Link]

Ph shock only occurs when the Ph rises or falls sharply. The Ph scale is logarithmic. If I remember right the gap between 7.5 and 7.6 for example is 10. The gap between 7 and 8 is 100. You shouldn't let it change more than 10 in a 24 hour period. I'm having the same problem in my tank with a ph of around 8. It wont kill the fish straight away but it may do over time. All mine seem ok. I'm trying to find ways of lowering it without causing ph shock. Get a jug of tapwater and measure the ph. Then add a few pebbles and after 24 hours test again. If the ph has risen it's the pebbles.

 

[littleme1969]

, unless you have two science teacher parents, in which case they can show you how to safely use HCl in a hood!

ROFL.. I was thinking that when I read the 2 Science teachers for parents bit...lol How cool is that!! B)

Thanks for that guys.. The pebbles are out and awaiting a vinegar test
and I'm slapping myself with a large wet cod. Thinking what a stupid mare I am for putting the bamn things in in the first place ) Not that I have anything against cod you understand

I do weekly water changes of about 20% as I only have a basic undergravel filter and need to keep on top of the rubbish that builds up by gravel cleaning.

once again .. THANKS

 

[gixer]

everyone goes on aout the vinegar method....it actually doesnt work on most rocks. vinegar is not strong enough acid to react with most types of rock.. infact i can only ever get it to fizz on mortar and concrete or very pourous sandstone.

 

[clutterydrawer]

it is not cool

it means I get extra homework

and hassle for wanting to be a writer, not a chemist

BUT....it is handy when I have fish-related questions...nitrogen cycle, gh, kh, plants, etc. and i can steal supplies. (ammonia! pH tests!) from their schools.

 

[littleme1969]

it is not cool

it means I get extra homework

and hassle for wanting to be a writer, not a chemist

BUT....it is handy when I have fish-related questions...nitrogen cycle, gh, kh, plants, etc. and i can steal supplies. (ammonia! pH tests!) from their schools.

lol..
At this point I'm feeling kind of inferior with the realisation that a *young adult* of school age is whipping my butt when it comes to fish keeping
But hey .. we have to learn somewhere.. and I'm learning some good stuff on this forum.. Thank goodness for it is all I can say cos I would have made so many more mistakes and caused harm to my poor little fish

And yes I also agree couldn't get the vinegar thing to work either, but I'm going for option 2. Sticking the stones in a bucket and testing in 12 hours and if i get the rise.. then I know its them.. but if it turns out to be the gravel (bought with the fish tank) I'll be well hacked off as it means having to almost re cycle my tank again

 

[clutterydrawer]

lol..
At this point I'm feeling kind of inferior with the realisation that a *young adult* of school age is whipping my butt when it comes to fish keeping
But hey .. we have to learn somewhere.. and I'm learning some good stuff on this forum.. Thank goodness for it is all I can say cos I would have made so many more mistakes and caused harm to my poor little fish

don't worry. It's experience not age that counts with fishkeeping. I have been keeping fish for about three years, once you have been keeping them as long you will know at least as much as me but probably more also since I'm fresh from school I can still remember my chemistry lessons

also there are people here who are, say, 15 (three years less than me) but know...everything. nearly. takes some getting used to!


let us know how the pH thing turns out. if it's the gravel yo ucould always replace it bitby bit so as not to restart the cycling process.

 

[yhbae]

Do you own a nitrate testing kit? If you do, your bottle 1 is the HCl solution - try testing with that. It will fizzle even on a small amount of alkaline substances in the rock...

 

[cation]

Do you own a nitrate testing kit? If you do, your bottle 1 is the HCl solution - try testing with that. It will fizzle even on a small amount of alkaline substances in the rock...

Wow! Do you know the strength of the solution?

 

[Bignose]

Most tapwater has loads of dissolved CO2 when it comes out of the faucet. If the gravel does not turn out to be the likely suspect, sit your tapwater out overnight and re-test its pH. To wit, my tapwater tests 7.0 to 7.2 from the faucet, but in my tanks and after sitting overnight, it is consistently 8.2-8.4. So, I would suggest getting tap water, test it, wait over night, test it again, then add the pebbles and test it a third time. That CO2, as heavily planted tank owners can attest, will lower the pH significantly.

Also, pH stands for -log10[concentration of H3O+ ions], the negative of the base 10 logarithm of the concentration. H3O+ is how the ion really exists, but it is often written just H+. For example, if the concentration of H3O+ ions is 10^-8, the pH is equal to 8. So, increase the concentration ten-fold: 10^-8 * 10 = 10^-7, and the new pH is 7.

So, it is a ten-fold increase from 8 to 7 of acidic ions. Or a tenfold increase in basic ions to go from 7 to 8. Not 100 as Link stated.