Parasites? Stringy poo, swollen bellies, swimming at surface, three deaths so far.

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Penelope .R

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My 60 gallon has had a few deaths recently.
It started with a dwarf gourami. His belly swelled up and he sat on the bottom. I separated him immediately and he lived for a few days in quarantine before passing. I assumed it was bloat because of the swollen abdomen and sitting on the bottom.
A week-ish later, a molly started swimming at the surface and breathing heavily, had stringy poop, and eventually died as well.
Since then I have also lost a cory catfish, but didn't notice any symptoms in him, so unfortunately he died in the tank.
Now my blue dwarf gourami is swimming by the filter output most of the time, no swelling, some stringy poop, will swim but not much.

I am mostly concerned about my seven year old silver dollars, my kissing gourami Adonis, and my kuhli loaches. None of them are showing symptoms, but they are definitely the most important fish I have.

Water parameters are good, I do weekly water changes and ph stays around neutral. Until now I haven't lost a fish since January of this year. The tank is overstocked for sure (13 Rosy barbs someone rescued and *gifted* me, currently setting up a dedicated Rosy tank to move them into), I try to compensate by doing large water changes but the filter does a really good job at keeping ammonia at 0.

I haven't added any new fish or plants in a year, and all of my tanks have their own equipment and supplies, I'm very careful about cross contamination.

I've read some posts here on stringy poo and swelling and I'm thinking this is an intestinal parasite. I've never dealt with it before, so I'm not sure what to do.
I've done some reading on treatment but I'm concerned about hurting the kuhli loaches and the snails. I also have some questions about the filter, it's well established and I don't want to remove the media and kill the bacteria but I also don't want to render any medication useless.

Sorry if some of this doesn't make sense, I just got off a 14 hour shift and will probably pass out as soon as I post this.
I can get a picture of the gourami tomorrow, he's starting to look less stunning.
Also, every fish that has died so far are Petsmart fish, I'm honestly surprised they've lived as long as they have.

I'm mostly concerned about medication because of the kuhli loaches. I like my snails and can separate them if need be, but the kuhlis are very important to me.

Anyway, advice is deeply appreciated. I have some different medications on hand but I don't think any of them treat internal parasites, if that's even what this is.
 
If fish suddenly swell up overnight, stop eating, do a stringy white poop, hang out near a filter outlet or by the surface gasping, and die within 24-48 hours of showing these symptoms, they have an internal bacterial infection.

There is no treatment for any fish showing these symptoms because the bacteria have done massive damage to the fish's organs and the fish has organ failure.

Dwarf gouramis can carry fish Tuberculosis (TB) and this causes the above symptoms. There is no cure for fish TB.

-------------------
Mollies regularly carry intestinal worms and this can cause fish to do stringy white poop. However, worms don't stop fish from eating and don't normally kill the fish quickly. If a fish has a few intestinal worms it can live with them for years, as long as the fish is well fed. If a fish has lots of intestinal worms then the fish can look really fat, but it is fat due to all the worms in its body.

The following link has information about stringy white poop in fish.

-------------------
At this stage I would just do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate every day for a week, clean the filter, and then monitor the remaining fish. If more bloat up, do stringy white poop and die within the next few weeks, then perhaps look at treating the tank with some anti-biotics. This will probably wipe out the filter bacteria but it might stop the bacteria killing everything else in the tank. If it's fish TB it won't make any difference and fish will continue to die one here and one there over the next year or so.

-------------------
You should treat the tank as if it has fish TB until proven otherwise.
  • Avoid getting aquarium water on any open cuts, scratches or wounds.
  • Wear rubber gloves if you have to work in the tank and you have open wounds on your skin.
  • Wash hands and arms with soapy water after working in the tank.
  • Don't share equipment between tanks. If you have to, soak the item in undiluted household bleach for 30 minutes then rinse really well. Allow it to dry in the sun for an hour and then it should be safe to use on other tanks.

If you get any sores that don't heal quickly and normally within 2 weeks, talk to your doctor and inform them you have a fish tank that might have fish TB in. Get your doctor to take a swab of the infected area and send it off to a lab for culturing.

DO NOT take anti-biotics during this time because you need to find out what the problem is and get the correct medication for the type and strain of disease organism. There are different species and strains of Tuberculosis and they can't all be treated with the same medication. So it is imperative that you find out exactly what is causing the infection, and then get the correct medication to treat it.
 
If fish suddenly swell up overnight, stop eating, do a stringy white poop, hang out near a filter outlet or by the surface gasping, and die within 24-48 hours of showing these symptoms, they have an internal bacterial infection.

There is no treatment for any fish showing these symptoms because the bacteria have done massive damage to the fish's organs and the fish has organ failure.

Dwarf gouramis can carry fish Tuberculosis (TB) and this causes the above symptoms. There is no cure for fish TB.

-------------------
Mollies regularly carry intestinal worms and this can cause fish to do stringy white poop. However, worms don't stop fish from eating and don't normally kill the fish quickly. If a fish has a few intestinal worms it can live with them for years, as long as the fish is well fed. If a fish has lots of intestinal worms then the fish can look really fat, but it is fat due to all the worms in its body.

The following link has information about stringy white poop in fish.

-------------------
At this stage I would just do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate every day for a week, clean the filter, and then monitor the remaining fish. If more bloat up, do stringy white poop and die within the next few weeks, then perhaps look at treating the tank with some anti-biotics. This will probably wipe out the filter bacteria but it might stop the bacteria killing everything else in the tank. If it's fish TB it won't make any difference and fish will continue to die one here and one there over the next year or so.

-------------------
You should treat the tank as if it has fish TB until proven otherwise.
  • Avoid getting aquarium water on any open cuts, scratches or wounds.
  • Wear rubber gloves if you have to work in the tank and you have open wounds on your skin.
  • Wash hands and arms with soapy water after working in the tank.
  • Don't share equipment between tanks. If you have to, soak the item in undiluted household bleach for 30 minutes then rinse really well. Allow it to dry in the sun for an hour and then it should be safe to use on other tanks.

If you get any sores that don't heal quickly and normally within 2 weeks, talk to your doctor and inform them you have a fish tank that might have fish TB in. Get your doctor to take a swab of the infected area and send it off to a lab for culturing.

DO NOT take anti-biotics during this time because you need to find out what the problem is and get the correct medication for the type and strain of disease organism. There are different species and strains of Tuberculosis and they can't all be treated with the same medication. So it is imperative that you find out exactly what is causing the infection, and then get the correct medication to treat it.
What's the prognosis for fish tb? There are fish in this tank I've had for seven years. Will all of the fish die off or just some? How can I give the healthy fish a fighting chance? Does this mean they are all infected or just some?

What makes me think it's parasites is that it didn't kill the fish fast, the other gourami has been like this for a few days now. I read through the thread you linked before posting this. Also because I haven't had anyone die since adding these fish last year, I wonder if they've had then all along.

What antibiotics should I use if symptoms continue. For now I'm going to do water changes and gravel vac but I just want to know. Would furan2 be effective at all?
 
There's nothing good if it's fish TB. Any fish that contracts the bacteria will die within a couple of years of being infected. If you keep the water cooler, the bacteria grow slower and the fish live longer, but the end result is the bacteria destroy or do extensive damage to one or more internal organs and the fish dies from organ failure.

Sometimes a few fish are affected but other times they all are. If there are infected fish in the tank, they shed bacteria into the tank and these end up in the substrate, filter and on plants and ornaments. These bacteria can be picked up by other fishes in the tank.

Providing the fish with good water quality, a varied diet and correct temperature is all you can do. Bigger fish generally live longer because it takes more bacteria to damage an organ.

-----------------
I don't have access to anti-biotics in Australia but some of the US members have used Furan 2 with Kanaplex to treat internal bacterial infections. These anti-biotics might wipe out the filter bacteria so you need to monitor the ammonia and nitrite levels if you use them.

Ideally you use the anti-biotics in a bare glass or plastic container that has the fish and water in. Each day you wipe the inside of the container and replace all the water, then re-treat them.

Anti-biotics will not treat fish TB. The Mycobacteria (TB) have a waxy coating over their cell and it prevents medications killing the bacteria.
 
There's nothing good if it's fish TB. Any fish that contracts the bacteria will die within a couple of years of being infected. If you keep the water cooler, the bacteria grow slower and the fish live longer, but the end result is the bacteria destroy or do extensive damage to one or more internal organs and the fish dies from organ failure.

Sometimes a few fish are affected but other times they all are. If there are infected fish in the tank, they shed bacteria into the tank and these end up in the substrate, filter and on plants and ornaments. These bacteria can be picked up by other fishes in the tank.

Providing the fish with good water quality, a varied diet and correct temperature is all you can do. Bigger fish generally live longer because it takes more bacteria to damage an organ.

-----------------
I don't have access to anti-biotics in Australia but some of the US members have used Furan 2 with Kanaplex to treat internal bacterial infections. These anti-biotics might wipe out the filter bacteria so you need to monitor the ammonia and nitrite levels if you use them.

Ideally you use the anti-biotics in a bare glass or plastic container that has the fish and water in. Each day you wipe the inside of the container and replace all the water, then re-treat them.

Anti-biotics will not treat fish TB. The Mycobacteria (TB) have a waxy coating over their cell and it prevents medications killing the bacteria.
Thank you.
I'll treat with water changes and gravel vacuuming for now, but I'm thinking about treating the gourami I have in quarantine right now with furan-2 and Kanaplex. I have both and have used them both together. Late last year my two old silver dollars had an infection that started eating their mouths and the two medications together helped get rid of it in conjunction with daily water changes.
Of course if it's fish TB, as you explained, there's really nothing I can do. What's the likelihood of it being TB? Just curious, like is it a fairly rare thing or common in dwarf gouramis?

Sorry for the questions, I'll be doing my own reading as well.
 
Another question, could I get the gourami tested for tb?
I know this would probably require euthanasia, but if it gives me a concrete answer.
 
Of course if it's fish TB, as you explained, there's really nothing I can do. What's the likelihood of it being TB? Just curious, like is it a fairly rare thing or common in dwarf gouramis?
Fish TB used to be rare but has become quite common over the last 30 years. When I had it in my tanks (2006 was when it was confirmed), I did some research into it and contacted most of the shops and importers in the country. They all confirmed they had fish TB in their tanks at one time or another, or had serious suspicions they had it in their tanks.

Unfortunately dwarf gouramis (Colisa lalius) is regularly infected with fish TB and or the gourami Iridovirus. This is due to the major suppliers of these fish being unwilling to destroy their stock, clean everything and start again. Instead, they just keep sending out infected fish. Most other gouramis don't have these problems.

Another question, could I get the gourami tested for tb?
I know this would probably require euthanasia, but if it gives me a concrete answer.
Yes you can get the fish tested. You take a live specimen to a fish vet or animal health lab (there is usually one in the department of agriculture) and get them to kill the fish and do a necropsy (animal autopsy) on it. Most places will only do a quick necropsy and you need to specify you want it checked for fish TB.

In Western Australia where I am, the department of agriculture does animal necropsy for free if you are a pet owner and not a business. Some countries around the world also provide a free service for this. If you contact your local department of agriculture, they should be able to tell you if they can do a fish necropsy and how much it will cost. Otherwise ring a few vets and find a fish vet (someone who has done an extended course in fish husbandry) and take the fish to them. It might cost a bit of money ($100-200) but will give you a definite identification of the problem.

Fingers and fins crossed it is not fish TB.
 
Fish TB used to be rare but has become quite common over the last 30 years. When I had it in my tanks (2006 was when it was confirmed), I did some research into it and contacted most of the shops and importers in the country. They all confirmed they had fish TB in their tanks at one time or another, or had serious suspicions they had it in their tanks.

Unfortunately dwarf gouramis (Colisa lalius) is regularly infected with fish TB and or the gourami Iridovirus. This is due to the major suppliers of these fish being unwilling to destroy their stock, clean everything and start again. Instead, they just keep sending out infected fish. Most other gouramis don't have these problems.


Yes you can get the fish tested. You take a live specimen to a fish vet or animal health lab (there is usually one in the department of agriculture) and get them to kill the fish and do a necropsy (animal autopsy) on it. Most places will only do a quick necropsy and you need to specify you want it checked for fish TB.

In Western Australia where I am, the department of agriculture does animal necropsy for free if you are a pet owner and not a business. Some countries around the world also provide a free service for this. If you contact your local department of agriculture, they should be able to tell you if they can do a fish necropsy and how much it will cost. Otherwise ring a few vets and find a fish vet (someone who has done an extended course in fish husbandry) and take the fish to them. It might cost a bit of money ($100-200) but will give you a definite identification of the problem.

Fingers and fins crossed it is not fish TB.
Thank you.
I did a water change and gravel vac today, I'll focus on keeping the water clean for now but if the gourami gets worse I'll be back.
Here's hoping it's not TB! It would be so upsetting if I lost my old silver dollars now after keeping them for so long.
Thank you for your help 😊🖤
 

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