Oversized Heaters

[LauraFrog]

Short version
Is it safe to put a seriously overrated heater in a tank? Like, a heater that would handle a 50 gallon tank, into a 20 gallon? I'm all out of spare heaters, and I don't want to burn the house down.


Long version
Something came up today and I had to take a few fish off the LFS without any warning at all. Certainly no time to get my equipment organised. New shipment of fish containing three extremely badly eggbound female bettas. They will die if I don't get the eggs out in a few days and I'm the person who got the call (because I have more rescued males to do the job than just about anyone in the flaming district.)

All three are CT; quite good quality girls actually. One is so freaking huge that I've called Vali (an enormous rescued VT) out of retirement, I'll see if he knows what to do (because I've certainly never bred him). I hope he remembers because I don't have anything else that can wrap her. The other two, I have males that are quite well matched to them, so I might even get some decent fry out of this (though I will not be allowing all the eggs to hatch as I just don't have the space.)

The problem is this. I have three females that I need to spawn within a few days, or they're going to get far sicker than I can deal with. Eggbound fish dying are not a pretty sight. Normally I would never attempt three spawns at once (any betta breeder will tell you it's lunacy, especially when even basic plans haven't been made.) But I'm patching things together here to save the lives of the females. Three emergency spawns = three ten gallon spawn tanks. I've got the tanks, but not the heaters.

So here's the sitch:
I have a 20 gallon tank running a 50 watt heater. No probs, that's gotta be my favourite tank actually (brackish).
I have one spare heater, another 50 watt that I always have kicking around in case of emergencies like this. Thought it would be enough, but apparently no.
I've also got a 150 watt heater that I bought for a system I'm setting up - it's going in the sump. That system may end up on the backburner for a few days because of this little emergency.

So those three are the only heaters I have. All my other tanks are inside, where I don't bother heating them because the room stays warm. But I simply cannot cram any more fish tanks in it. Of the three emergency 10 gals I have to set up, I've managed to squash one of them into this room. So that's covered. It's not ideal but it's covered.
The other two HAVE to go outside. One of them is running my spare 50 watt. So that's working.

So that leaves me with a 10 gallon tank and a 150 watt heater. So what do I do? My options are, as I see it:
Put the 150 watt heater in the 10 gallon tank (is this electrically safe?)
Put the 150 watt heater in the 20 gallon tank, and move the 50 watt heater from the 20 gallon tank to the 10 gallon (again, electrically safe?)
Try to cram yet another 10 gallon tank in my room (virtually impossible)
Put emergency spawn #3 on hold until one of the other pairs does it and frees up a heater. It's a possibility because the third female is a bit better off than the others, she only looks very uncomfortable instead of ludicrously swollen.

Before everybody asks I do know what I'm doing breeding bettas, I have plans for the 500+ fry that are likely to result (not allowing most of the eggs to hatch, because 500+ fry is out of the question for me right now), the diagnosis on the females is good (I'm sure I know what I'm dealing with, it's not constipation, overfeeding or dropsy).

So could somebody please tell me whether it is safe to put a seriously overrated heater in a tank?

 

[Ludwig Venter]

Short version
Is it safe to put a seriously overrated heater in a tank? Like, a heater that would handle a 50 gallon tank, into a 20 gallon? I'm all out of spare heaters, and I don't want to burn the house down.

Geez!!... I prefer to reply to the short version... (although speed reading the longer version - it seems interesting)

I think if you use an overrated heater in a smaller tank, the temperature (on the heater) will have to be set to eg. 28 degrees for you to maintain a temp of 26 deg C.... The logic behind that is that the stronger heater will warm up its immediate area a lot quicker, causing the thermostat to switch off the heater before all of the water attained the required temp.... However, this may be partially overcome if a (rather) strong airstream in placed directly below the heater to spread the warmth quicker.....

 

[rabbut]

The heater internal stats are inaccurate anyway I find, so as always, use a separate thermometer to measure your temperature and set the heater from the thermometer, not it's own "built-in" temperature gauge

Again, I find myself disagreeing with a mod. I really need to get out of this habit

A larger heater than rated usually leads to temperature swings. When a heater warms up and switches off when the temperature reaches that the stat is set to. After this, it takes time to cool. When the heater is the correct size, it "over-heats" the tank by maybe 0.5 of a degree. When the heater is say 3 times the size of the recommended, it "over-heats" the tank by about 1.5 degrees. The stat does not switch the heater on again until the temperature drops below the "switch off" point, and the cycle repeats, with the temperature bouncing around constantly. This isn't an issue for healthy fish, but if the fish are stressed or ill already, it will not do them good

All the best
Rabbut

 

[Ludwig Venter]

Again, I find myself disagreeing with a mod. I really need to get out of this habit

All the best
Rabbut

Of course you're allowed to disagree (with anyone) ..... My comment is in theory, that's why I started the sentence with "I think"..... and indirectly, "I Think" our theories do not differ that much...... So yes.... I agree with you.

 

[LauraFrog]

I'm thinking I might risk it in the 20 gal tank... I'm even more nervous though because it's a new heater that I've never used, and normally I would let any new equipment run for at least 24 hours before I put it in a tank containing stock. (like my 20 gal, which currently contains some rare yucatan sailfins, well over $200 in stock and virtually irreplaceable as the suppliers have stopped selling females.) I dunno... I've got some big 20 gallon plastic tubs, so I suppose I could try it in there first and see if there are any disasters. I can get to the LFS on tuesday and hopefully borrow some heaters, since these are their fish anyway.

Unfortunately using powerheads etc. to blow the water around and spread the heat is not an option in a betta breeding tank, it would destroy the bubblenest (defeating the whole point of the exercise). Which is just SO typical, because I have about six spare filters and powerheads of several sizes plus one spare air pump.

I've set up two of the three spawns. One of them is getting somewhere, the female has barred up and the male is building a nest. One of them I'm using a rescued VT who seems to have no idea what to do. I'm going to have to swap him, but I only have one other large VT (I dont' think any of my CT boys are big enough to wrap this female, she's monstrous.) So if Thor is equally hopeless I don't know what I'm going to do. At least the third spawn has a very pretty female and I'll be working with one of my best males, Flicker, an experienced father. I'm planning to keep the fry from that one... a big pile of drool-worthy CTs is my cut for all this stress1

 

[shelaghfishface]

afer a very quick read--- i used an Elite 300w in a 160 L tank, and short story-- it boiled the fish, i wouldnt use that brand or an oversized ever again ( only bought 300 as it was the same price as a 150 and felt like i was getting a bargain

 

[Ludwig Venter]

Can't see any reason why not to try it... don't think you'll have any problems.... (just monitor the temps for the first coupla hours - obviously & make adjustments to your thermostat as required)

 

[Tolak]

I've used oversize heaters in a pinch in tanks with little circulation, angel fry tanks. Try to get the heater towards the middle of the tank, this is generally the area with the best circulation. Never trust the heater thermostat in regards to the temperature it displays. Keep tabs on temperature with a reliable thermometer. I had a 100w heater in a 5 gallon tank for a while with no problems, but I was a bit nervous about it, if it sticks on the temperature will take off real fast.