On-Going Ammonia Problems!

[muelleh]

30 gal tank - at least 3 years

2 angels
8 tetras
5 corys
2 siamese algae eaters
snails

Briefly, I apparently over-cleaned my tank prior to going on vacation and threw it into a mini cycle (at least I hope that's all it is...)

Despite water changes every 12 hours (between 30-50% each time) for about 10 days, the ammonia level continues to return to .25 (I am still feeding though not as much). Nitrites 0 and barely any nitrates (between 0 - 5). I am getting desperate...so got a bottle of Prime and called Seachem. This is what they recommended:

Change water again this evening and treat entire tank with correct dosage of Prime. Wait 48 hours and repeat. Continue doing this until ammonia problem is resolved. Several questions:

1. Is there a way to know this without having to buy their ammonia test kit (will have to order it on-line). I have the API freshwater/saltwater ammonia test kit and have read that if I test immediately after a water change I can get an accurate reading. Is that true?

2. Does the presence of any nitrate at all mean that I haven't crashed my cycle? I am starting to be concerned that rather than being in a minicycle, I am in a full-blown cycle (so I keep testing for nitrites).

3. I am on well water so don't have to worry about what might be going on with my water source.

Seachem Rep also said to add Stability, yet I have read conflicting info about adding it/TSS/Biozyme during any kind of cycling issues.

Any help would be appreciated. I am all "googled" out from trying to figure this out myself!

 

[VaegaVic]

30 gal tank - at least 3 years

2 angels
8 tetras
5 corys
2 siamese algae eaters
snails

Briefly, I apparently over-cleaned my tank prior to going on vacation and threw it into a mini cycle (at least I hope that's all it is...)
Over-cleaned how? Cleaned out the filter media?

Despite water changes every 12 hours (between 30-50% each time) for about 10 days, the ammonia level continues to return to .25 (I am still feeding though not as much). Nitrites 0 and barely any nitrates (between 0 - 5). I am getting desperate...so got a bottle of Prime and called Seachem. This is what they recommended:
Who recommended?

Change water again this evening and treat entire tank with correct dosage of Prime. Wait 48 hours and repeat. Continue doing this until ammonia problem is resolved. Several questions:

1. Is there a way to know this without having to buy their ammonia test kit (will have to order it on-line). I have the API freshwater/saltwater ammonia test kit and have read that if I test immediately after a water change I can get an accurate reading. Is that true?
That would just be testing the new water in the tank..? Don't see how that is accurate, ideally test the next morning, just before a water change.

2. Does the presence of any nitrate at all mean that I haven't crashed my cycle? I am starting to be concerned that rather than being in a minicycle, I am in a full-blown cycle (so I keep testing for nitrites).
Yes, it's just a mini.
3. I am on well water so don't have to worry about what might be going on with my water source.

Seachem Rep also said to add Stability, yet I have read conflicting info about adding it/TSS/Biozyme during any kind of cycling issues.
Pfft..just read any bacteria in a bottle topic..


Two things,
One, API test kits are notoriously hard to read on ammonia, test your tap water and tank water and compare results.
Two, Chloramine in the water will be broken down by prime into chlorine and ammonia. I know you said Well water, but still..worth a check.

Any help would be appreciated. I am all "googled" out from trying to figure this out myself!

 

[muelleh]

30 gal tank - at least 3 years

2 angels
8 tetras
5 corys
2 siamese algae eaters
snails

Briefly, I apparently over-cleaned my tank prior to going on vacation and threw it into a mini cycle (at least I hope that's all it is...)
Over-cleaned how? Cleaned out the filter media?

Yes - used tank water, and changed both carbon filters at the same time. Also cleaned the leaves off all the plants and cleaned the decorations. Vacced thoroughly.

Despite water changes every 12 hours (between 30-50% each time) for about 10 days, the ammonia level continues to return to .25 (I am still feeding though not as much). Nitrites 0 and barely any nitrates (between 0 - 5). I am getting desperate...so got a bottle of Prime and called Seachem. This is what they recommended:
Who recommended?

The Seachem rep - I called the number on the website.


Change water again this evening and treat entire tank with correct dosage of Prime. Wait 48 hours and repeat. Continue doing this until ammonia problem is resolved. Several questions:

1. Is there a way to know this without having to buy their ammonia test kit (will have to order it on-line). I have the API freshwater/saltwater ammonia test kit and have read that if I test immediately after a water change I can get an accurate reading. Is that true?
That would just be testing the new water in the tank..? Don't see how that is accurate, ideally test the next morning, just before a water change.

OK, this is what I have also been reading elsewhere when using Prime or AmQuel+: wait 24 hrs. to test to get a more accurate reading. J

2. Does the presence of any nitrate at all mean that I haven't crashed my cycle? I am starting to be concerned that rather than being in a minicycle, I am in a full-blown cycle (so I keep testing for nitrites).
Yes, it's just a mini.

Good - thank you.

3. I am on well water so don't have to worry about what might be going on with my water source.

Seachem Rep also said to add Stability, yet I have read conflicting info about adding it/TSS/Biozyme during any kind of cycling issues.
Pfft..just read any bacteria in a bottle topic..

Yes, have been doing that and think I will stay away from them.



Two things,
One, API test kits are notoriously hard to read on ammonia, test your tap water and tank water and compare results.

I have. I test the tap water and the test the treated (Stress Coat) new water I am going to add...no ammonia in either. The problem is clearly in the tank.

Two, Chloramine in the water will be broken down by prime into chlorine and ammonia. I know you said Well water, but still..worth a check.

Hmmm...I am not sure what this means???

Thanks for your responses. With all the differing information, misinformation, opinions, etc., it is hard to make an educated decision...


Any help would be appreciated. I am all "googled" out from trying to figure this out myself!

 

[dipsydoodlenoodle]

If API tests are hard to read for ammonia; what is recommended?

Sorry for hijacking the thread.

 

[Twinklecaz]

I personally overall prefer the API tests but the Salifert kits are rumoured to be the most accurate and they are very easy to read.....the Ammonia one will basically stay clear if it's 0 and have colour if it's not. It's not very expensive online, about £6-£7.

 

[dipsydoodlenoodle]

I personally overall prefer the API tests but the Salifert kits are rumoured to be the most accurate and they are very easy to read.....the Ammonia one will basically stay clear if it's 0 and have colour if it's not. It's not very expensive online, about £6-£7.

I have the API one; I was just wondering; I might look into the other one thanks

 

[VaegaVic]

30 gal tank - at least 3 years

2 angels
8 tetras
5 corys
2 siamese algae eaters
snails

Briefly, I apparently over-cleaned my tank prior to going on vacation and threw it into a mini cycle (at least I hope that's all it is...)
Over-cleaned how? Cleaned out the filter media?

Yes - used tank water, and changed both carbon filters at the same time. Also cleaned the leaves off all the plants and cleaned the decorations. Vacced thoroughly.

More detail needed here, what type of filter are you running? Is it JUST the carbon media you have in the filter or are there other types (white foam, ceramic rings etc)?
If there is JUST carbon media, then you'll have removed a large amount of beneficial bacteria which keep your fish alive, if the carbon is only half, you'll only have removed half.
Just info for future reference, carbon is only active for anywhere between 4 days to 2 weeks in a filter, after which you can change it, problem is, as you've discovered and manufacturers kindly leave out, carbon also houses beneficial bacteria, causing a mini-cycle. I have always recommended either leaving the carbon in there until you actually NEED to replace (E.g removing meds) or just replace it with a normal sponge pad.

Despite water changes every 12 hours (between 30-50% each time) for about 10 days, the ammonia level continues to return to .25 (I am still feeding though not as much). Nitrites 0 and barely any nitrates (between 0 - 5). I am getting desperate...so got a bottle of Prime and called Seachem. This is what they recommended:
Who recommended?

The Seachem rep - I called the number on the website.


Righto then,
Change water again this evening and treat entire tank with correct dosage of Prime. Wait 48 hours and repeat. Continue doing this until ammonia problem is resolved. Several questions:

1. Is there a way to know this without having to buy their ammonia test kit (will have to order it on-line). I have the API freshwater/saltwater ammonia test kit and have read that if I test immediately after a water change I can get an accurate reading. Is that true?
That would just be testing the new water in the tank..? Don't see how that is accurate, ideally test the next morning, just before a water change.

OK, this is what I have also been reading elsewhere when using Prime or AmQuel+: wait 24 hrs. to test to get a more accurate reading. J

Yea, basically the longer you leave it, the more accurate it is, well, up until the point of where the cycle is over lol.

2. Does the presence of any nitrate at all mean that I haven't crashed my cycle? I am starting to be concerned that rather than being in a minicycle, I am in a full-blown cycle (so I keep testing for nitrites).
Yes, it's just a mini.

Good - thank you.

3. I am on well water so don't have to worry about what might be going on with my water source.

Seachem Rep also said to add Stability, yet I have read conflicting info about adding it/TSS/Biozyme during any kind of cycling issues.
Pfft..just read any bacteria in a bottle topic..

Yes, have been doing that and think I will stay away from them.


That's not to say NONE work, as they do atleast give some sort of starter culture, even if it is inert, it's still better than waiting for bacteria to magically appear..
Just don't expect them to do what they say on the tin, "instant cycle" - my #14###.

Two things,
One, API test kits are notoriously hard to read on ammonia, test your tap water and tank water and compare results.

I have. I test the tap water and the test the treated (Stress Coat) new water I am going to add...no ammonia in either. The problem is clearly in the tank.

Two, Chloramine in the water will be broken down by prime into chlorine and ammonia. I know you said Well water, but still..worth a check.

Hmmm...I am not sure what this means???


Well some water companies add chloramine into their water as it's stronger than chlorine and doesn't evaporate. It's basically ammonia and chlorine compound, a fish keepers worst nightmare. When prime breaks this down, it breaks it down into chlorine and ammonia. Giving that your filter is already weakened from the cleaning, it could actually be the ammonia from the chloramine that's showing up on your results, possibly giving you false readings.

Thanks for your responses. With all the differing information, misinformation, opinions, etc., it is hard to make an educated decision...

Gah, tell me about it, put 10 fish keepers in a room and every one of them will give you a different opinion. Hope my insight can at the very least, point you in the right direction.

Any help would be appreciated. I am all "googled" out from trying to figure this out myself!

 

[muelleh]

I have the white foam filters in both, and also use carbon filters. Normally I never change both carbon filters at the same time, but they were both so dirty that swishing them around in the old tank water did nothing to clean them up (probably due to over-feeding?). In addition, the foam filters were covered with a disgusting layer of brown slime, so I swished all that off as well. Clearly over-did it. Live and learn...sigh. Anyway, I am going to get more foam for each filter as soon as it is back in stock at the LFS so I will have double the amount of foam in each.

Thanks for all your comments and help. I probably ought to get my well water tested anyway as it has been awhile since we last tested it.