Nitrate Question For A Friend...

[Mounit98]

Hey all.....

My friend has a 55 USA gallon tank, and I just tested her water for her. She had an Ich problem that was taken care of, but now her Nitrates are around 20 as of right now. Everything else is good, but the Nitrates.

How much water should she change to get this back down to 0?

Thanks for any help!
Melissa

 

[Truck]

20 is fine.

 

[MewMew42]

I wouldn't worry about 20ppm nitrAtes, at this level it is harmless to the fish, just regular water changes each week will take that out

it is usually found in your tap water to begin with!

its been said that anything up to around 400ppm has been classed as safe, but I would say around about 80 is where you need to do a water change just to be safe

Ammonia and NitrItes are the things that need to be at 0

 

[kelly528]

its been said that anything up to around 400ppm has been classed as safe, but I would say around about 80 is where you need to do a water change just to be safe

Inthe 1970s and 80s, yes but not today. During this 'era' of fishkeeping it was also customary not to do water changes.

Today 40ppm is considered the 'line in the sand' for nitrates. I'm not sure most test kits even read above 40 but I could be wrong.

However you would have to work at it to get nitrates even at 40 ppm. I run a heavily stocked endler tank with nitrates rarely above 5ppm even right before water change day, but of course the nitrates are offset by heavy planting.

If your friend does not have an overstocked tank and is cleaning it 25% per week nitrates will probably rarely exceed 20ppm.

 

[Truck]

its been said that anything up to around 400ppm has been classed as safe, but I would say around about 80 is where you need to do a water change just to be safe

Inthe 1970s and 80s, yes but not today. During this 'era' of fishkeeping it was also customary not to do water changes.

Today 40ppm is considered the 'line in the sand' for nitrates. I'm not sure most test kits even read above 40 but I could be wrong.

However you would have to work at it to get nitrates even at 40 ppm. I run a heavily stocked endler tank with nitrates rarely above 5ppm even right before water change day, but of course the nitrates are offset by heavy planting.

If your friend does not have an overstocked tank and is cleaning it 25% per week nitrates will probably rarely exceed 20ppm.

No, Now as well, Modern science has proved that when nitrate levels reach about 250mg/L it may start to affect some weaker fish, but for most it begins at 400mg/L

 

[kelly528]

affect? Long term, short term, both?

 

[Truck]

Long term, It can cause nerve damage and other common ailments.

 

[kelly528]

Long term, It can cause nerve damage and other common ailments.

At what levels? Anything 250 and up? Or anything 40 and up?

 

[Truck]

It's not that simple, it depends on the species.

But at 250ppm some sensitive fish may begin to have problems, short term exposure isn't much of a problem, but long term it can take it's toll.

Most community fish like guppies can handle 400ppm

I'm guessing you've got Byron on the other forum telling you differently

 

[kelly528]

It's not that simple, it depends on the species.

But at 250ppm some sensitive fish may begin to have problems, short term exposure isn't much of a problem, but long term it can take it's toll.

Most community fish like guppies can handle 400ppm

I'm guessing you've got Byron on the other forum telling you differently

I've got EVERYONE on the other forum(s) telling me differently ...and Richard Hess, David Boruchowitz... I've never ever heard of nitrates over 40ppm being acceptable long term.

I was about to say... hmm-- if my endlers make 10ppm per week.... I only have to clean the tank every 20 weeks?!

Do you have the source?

 

[Truck]

Will find the source, I need to PM AndyWG, I believe he has the link somewhere.

 

[waterdrop]

Agree, Andywg was central to many of those discussions but I believe there were others that agreed with him. I believe there are papers on channel catfish(?) that seem to do fine in 1000ppm NO3 levels. There are huge differences in NO3 levels out there in nature, have been for a long time and different species have adapted to it to various extents or not, as the individual cases may be. WD

 

[Truck]

I PM'd Andy asking him for the Paper, I'll have a look on channel catfish for it.

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, my understanding is that nitrate(NO3) not being so bad and being tolerated by some species at quite high levels is quite up-t0-date information, definately not one of the old things hanging on like "aged water" or such.

The advice we have normally been giving our beginners is to measure your tap water NO3 level, then measure your tank level. Once the tank is running with fish you should keep an eye on the -trend- in tank NO3 levels. They should typically hover around 15 to 20ppm above whatever the tap water level is. If they want to always creep upward then a change needs to be made to maintenance. The main tools are deep gravel-cleans for people with gravel and frequent substrate surface cleans for people with sand. It should always be remember that weekly water changes (noting that we're aware that some planted tank approaches may try fewer water changes) are taking out dozens, if not hundreds, of unknown organics and inorganics, including heavy metals and not just nitrate(NO3). Nitrate is just a great "flag" indicator of how the other things are probably doing.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[kelly528]

They should typically hover around 15 to 20ppm above whatever the tap water level is. If they want to always creep upward then a change needs to be made to maintenance.

Why then? Thats what I don't get about whats being said. I have always understood that weekly water changes are meant to remove nitrates. So if levels of up to 200ppm are fine for most fish then why not change your water every month or two?

I mean you mention water changes are vital for removing organics but if organic waste simply produces more of these 'harmless at 200ppm' nitrates, whats the point, right?

Also about water changes removing heavy metals. Correct me if I'm wrong but you would just be replacing the heavy metals as you replace the water, since heavy metals (as far as I know) only originate from tap water.