New tank plan -> feedback and advice appreciated!!

[mcordelia]

Hi Everyone,
I just joined and am looking forward to being a part of this community! I used to keep fish in high school about a hundred years ago, and then when I left for college my parents quickly and unceremoniously got rid of my tanks... I suspect the fish went the way of the porcelain bowl, but I have never dared to (or wanted to) ask!

So here we are, about a hundred years later, and working from home due to covid finally got my husband to agree to get a tank (I suspect he is bored staring at the walls all day too). [Also, for those of you who are essential and not able to work from home, THANK YOU]. He has gotten surprisingly into researching aquariums, so I consider that a win! It turns out, that while many things (like the nitrogen cycle) have not changed in the time I've been out of the hobby, many things have (LED lights?!?!?! what is this, sorcery?!?!?!?)

We were originally planning on getting a 20 long, but as the realities of fishkeeping have dawned on hubby, we've concluded that with our lifestyle and competing obligations, a bigger tank will be easier to maintain while still being a visual asset for the house (hopefully). I have my eyes on a 90 gallon with a beautiful stand that has been sitting on craigslist due to being woefully overpriced, so maybe that is my tank, or maybe some other tank on CL over the next few months will be, but that's the overall idea.

So here's what I'm thinking, and what I'd like your feedback on:

Maintenance: the reality of life is that I will probably be able to manage every-other-week water changes sometimes, but plan to stick predominantly to monthly water changes. My philosophy is to understock and have plants in a large tank, with the idea that everything will be copacetic despite the monthly water changes.

Tank: ~75-90 gallon (whatever I find on craigslist)
Filtration: 8-10x (hoping to get a used canister with whatever tank I buy)
Heating: probably 2x150w give or take depending on size, plan is to keep it at 75f but we keep our house at 64f during the winters so need the extra wattage
lights: whatever is included (assume low tech)

Substrate: first question! I would like a dark sand, but I've gone down the rabbit hole on substrate research Initially, I was thinking play sand/pool filter sand, but then concluded that it would not be as dark as I wanted. I see a lot of people recommending black diamond blasting sand, but where it's not meant for aquariums, it makes me a bit leery? I read about the tahitian moon sand issue where a bunch of fish died in 2016-2018, so I'm not sure what to think about that. I emailed CaribSea and asked if they had any suggestions for dark sand, and they told me that while they themselves don't have any dark sand, Estes makes a variety of dark natural and painted fish-safe substrates (how amazing is that for customer service?!?!). She sent me this link: https://estesco.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Estes-Aquarium-Sand-Gravel-Brochure-East.pdf my LFS stocks Estes brand products, so I can probably order any of these through them (no idea on the cost though). I am drawn to the "black" sand, or possibly the red flint (I wonder what would happen if I mix the two...?), does anyone have any experience with either? Does this sound reasonable? Hopefully it's not exorbitantly priced...

Aquascape: according to the city water report (haven't tested myself) our water is pretty hard and very alkaline (apparently pH 8-9!), so I am thinking of adding driftwood to try and help bring the pH down. I'd also like to try my hand at some easy plants that won't need fancy lights to grow. From what I understand, java fern, java moss, anubias, cryptocoryne and vallisneria are the plants I should stick with. Is that right? Are there different sub-varieties among those that don't follow the rules of "low light, easy to grow"? I'd appreciate your thoughts on the aquascape with regard to what we are thinking of stocking (below).

Stocking:
I'm trying to focus on hardy fishes which will still be interesting to look at. Specifically, we want a kid-friendly tank because our 2-year old is SUPER into animals, and will hopefully enjoy looking at the cool fishies (or maybe he won't, who can predict toddlers...).
My "draft" plan for fish is below, the only non-negotiable is the blood parrot cichlid. We're very open to suggestions, as long as the fish aren't very difficult to keep alive, and aren't the type that are always in hiding.
3 blood parrots
6 tiger barbs
6 bleeding heart tetras
6 corydoras
By the "1 inch per gallon" rule, this comes out to ~66in of fish, which based on my goal of monthly water changes may be too much for a 75g(?) but probably ok for a 90g? Do I need an algae eater? I used to have a common plecostomus, but I didn't really like it... I'm also concerned about plecos eating other fish's slime coat? I also am concerned about SAE's not being great, and I only ever managed to kill every otocinclus I tried to keep....
What is your feedback on my stocking plan?

ok, so I've managed to write an entire wall of text, hopefully someone bothers to read this whole thing! I am looking forward to your thoughts and advice!

Thanks and nice to meet you all!

 

[ClownLurch]

Welcome to this place. I’ve no experience of the fish you list so I’m sorry I can’t help but there’s plenty on here can I’m sure. I was just about to log out and watch an Elmore Leonard film. Michigan’s finest. Enjoy yourself here.

 

[Wills]

Hi welcome to the forum really great when people get back into the hobby!

So the first question we will ask you is how hard is your water? You mentioned your ph is rated as 8-9 which is really high (african cichlid territory) but I would recommend you get an API master test kit and check your tap water to get a more exact reading. If you can get a hardness test too that would be good but you can probably get your hardness rating off your water company website too?

For sand most people here use play sand - there is a popular brand that our US members use but I cant remember the name. If you did want to go darker just be careful when they say its aquarium safe paint as I dont fully trust this... I'd always recommend going for a brand that uses natural substrates like JBL, ADA and DOOA (there are others but these are the ones I know). If you use sand you should also check out root tab fertilisers which will help your plants no end.

Your plant list is a good starting point but I would try to narrow down which type of Anubias, Valis, Crypt etc you want as they can be quite varied in size and ease of growth. I'd also recommend checking out Hygrophila Siamensis 53b, Limnophilla Siamensis and Cardomine Lyrata which are all fast growing easy plants.

Depending on your water will help dictate what fish are best to keep. Parrots are quite hard to judge what is best for them because we dont know what they are decended from as a hybrid fish - most people think they are a mix of central and south american cichlids so you have conflicting requirements between hard and soft water fish which could mean they dont have long life spans. Ideally you will want neutral water in terms of ph and hardness to try and cater for both sides of their genes.

Parrots will also dig a lot so you will need to choose a lot of plants that grow on wood or rocks or where you can guard the roots with decor to avoid them being unlodged before the roots take hold. It is also going to be hard to get your tank to a level where monthly water changes are achievable with parrots as they are quite large waste producers so you need to take that into account. Tanks that can achieve big gaps between water changes are generally stocked with smaller fish and around 50-60% of what would be assumed as full stocked.

Lets work out what your water is like in terms of hardness before suggesting fish to go with the parrots though

Wills

 

[AilyNC]

I've both at sand and limpopo Black Sand in my tanks. The play sand is finer & much cheaper. I really like the dark sand & it lends a very peaceful vibe to that tank.

I like lots of plants. @AdoraBelle Dearheart got me hooked! I like Cryptocoryne plants, some Echinodorus, floating plants like Frogbit or Salvinia. I'm actually crazy about my brownish plant the Lagenandra meeboldii red. And I like mixing colours/shades of plants and textures too.

Even heavily plants I do weekly water changes & wouldn't trust the water to only do monthly. But you get a system going and it can be a half hour once a week.

Stock - from your list I've only kept Cory. And they get along with my Cherry Barbs. I prefer a chilled out community tank.

 

[Retired Viking]

Hello and welcome to the forum looks like @Wills covered most details.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

You don't have to get an algae eater or a pleco! It's not essential Better to prevent the causes of algae, and wipe down the tank walls on water change days, and call it good You could add some nerite snails for help with algae control with relatively low bioload (certainly compared to a pleco!) and a lot of kids get a kick out of snails in a tank too.

If you're going to go with cories, I'd urge you to go for a really fine sand substrate like playsand, even if it means going for a sightly lighter grey colour rather than a deeper black. Cories like to filter feed through sand, so I'd avoid things like the diamond blasting sand which is quite sharp, and could damage their gills as they try to filter feed. A very dark black substrate also looks a bit more unnatural, a softer mix of slate grey/browns/lighter specks mixed in is more natural for the fish. Saying that, only a few species of cory can cope with harder water, and I don't know whether any will work in your water, depends on how hard it really is.

I think one of the things that has changed in the hobby over the last few decades is research into substrates and floating plants, there's been more of a shift towards replicating a fishes natural environment. Research has shown that those brilliant white sands/gravel (in a freshwater tank, not a marine one) can stress fish out, and can even blind them, with the bright lights reflecting off brilliant white substrates. If the substrate is too dark, artificially black, I've heard this can stress them too, leading to more washed out colours.

Floating plants have really taken off too, since these replicate these river and lake fishes natural environments more, makes them feel more secure and tends to encourage them to be out and about more, and also helps shade them from the much brighter LED lights available today.

I thin Quikrite is the play sand a lot of US members use that's aquarium safe, I couldn't tell you whether it comes in different colours though! Sorry, I'm not in the US.

Once we know the hardness, we can make better suggestions about stocking. Welcome back to the hobby! Sounds like a gorgeous way to get back into it, with a lovely sized tank!

 

[Retired Viking]

I switched from gravel to play sand in my tetra /cory tank and I am happy with it. I also have somewhat hard water which I use RO water to reduce the hardness for my soft water fish and keep my hard water fish in separate tanks. I also agree with @AdoraBelle Dearheart about nerite snails, I have several in all my tanks and they do a good job keeping algae away. Fast growing plants will also help keep algae away since they absorb much of the excess nutrients in the water.

 

[WhistlingBadger]

Welcome, MC. I have no idea about blood parrots, so I can't recommend plants or tankmates that would work. For hard water, rainbowfish, amano shrimp, mystery snails, and panda garra are my go-to's, but I don't know how they'd do with blood parrots. It seems like most larger cichlids are hard to keep in planted tanks.

It is a hotly contested item on this forum, but I've had great results with black diamond sand in two different tanks, both of which lasted several years, one of which is still running. My fish (including three different species of cories) were always nicely colored up and very relaxed on it. That's my experience. So, if you like the way it looks, you have my permission to go for it.

 

[mcordelia]

Hi! Wow, you guys are awesome! Thank you so much for the tips and feedback already!
@AilyNC thanks for sharing the pictures! That limpopo black sand looks very cool, I will look into it!

Regarding the water parameters, I don't have a test kit yet, but these are a few other bits from the city water report:
Turbidity: <= 0.23NTU
Alkalinity, total (ppm as CaCO3) average:60 range: 34 – 112
Aluminum (ppm) avg:0.020
Ammonia as N (ppm) avg: <0.10 range: <0.10 – 0.43
Arsenic (ppb) avg: <0.5
Calcium (ppm) avg:30 range:20 – 40
Chloride (ppm) avg:114 range:95 – 141
Conductivity (µmhos/cm) avg:612 range:503 – 790
Hardness (CaCO3) (ppm) avg:130 range:96 – 170
Hardness (CaCO3) (gpg) avg:7.6 range:5.6-9.9
Magnesium (ppm) avg:13 range:8 – 19
Manganese (ppb) avg:0.6 range: <0.42-5.1
Mercury (ppb) avg: <0.20
Non-Carbonate Hardness (ppm) avg:70 range:32 – 122
pH (S.U.) avg:9.3 range:9.0 – 9.7
Phosphorus, total (ppm) avg:0.27 range:0.08 – 0.60
Potassium (ppm) avg:4.4
Sulfate (ppm) avg:49 range:33 – 81
Temperature (° Celsius) avg:14.9 range:3.7 – 25.0
Total solids (ppm) avg:357 range:308 – 400
Zinc (ppb) avg: <4.3
Nitrite in distribution (ppm) avg:0.051 range: <0.025- 0.210
I notice that the pH is even higher than what I remembered it being, gasp am I going to have to fill half of my tank with driftwood? is there such a thing as acidic stones...? When I asked the LFS about african cichlids due to the water parameters, they said that even though the area water in general is hard and alkaline, it can vary wildly within the municipality. She was telling me that depending on where you are located in the city your water either matches the water report or it does it's own thing, but she did mention that she's had a lot of people who have commented on the ammonia levels in the water (what's the point of doing a water change then, har har har). She said that I probably shouldn't start with african cichlids because they are mean and challenging to keep. I should probably already mention that we have an under-the-sink filter that we use for drinking water that I'm contemplating using for water changes since it would remove the chlorine and possibly some of the other nasties. I have to do the math on whether using water conditioner vs. buying new cartridges for the filter is cheaper in the long run. I think one cartridge is rated for ~500 gallons.

@AdoraBelle Dearheart thanks for the tip about all-black substrates being stressful to fish too! I had heard the thing about light colors being bad, resulting in muted colors, but did not know that too dark could result in a similar problem.

I think play sand / pool filter sand is a bit luck of the draw in terms of color due to most people not caring what color it is in general use, but from what I understand they're all some variation of "light beige". From looking at pictures, it seems awfully light.

Hopefully I touched on all the comments you guys made, looking forward to learning more!

 

[AilyNC]

Might be worth looking at RO water. @seangee, @Wills would that lower PH?

 

[WhistlingBadger]

Might be worth looking at RO water. @seangee, @Wills would that lower PH?

I was thinking that, too. But I know first hand that getting enough RO water to fun a big tank can be annoying enough to take the fun out of the hobby. It might be better to just choose hard-water fish. I bet Rainbowfish would love your water!

 

[mcordelia]

Hi Guys!
Oof, there's no way I'd afford the water bill that came with RO water for the tank, since in addition to the RO system itself, it's something like 3 gallons down the drain for every 1 gallon filtered if I understand correctly...
I love the idea of rainbows though! I'll have to do some more research into that. I assume they get along okay with a parrot? There were quite a few parrots swimming around in the LFS tanks, so I assume they wouldn't keep selling them if people kept coming back telling them that they die (the people at the LFS are so awesome and knowledgeable, they seem like the kind of folks who actually care about the well being of the fish ; I can't justify the $$ of buying a new tank through them, but can't wait to give them my fish and plant business!).

Also, update, I found a great deal on a 125 gallon tank on craigslist, it's bigger than I originally planned but I get the whole setup (cycled!!) and it comes out to less than what I would have to pay for all new stuff for a 75g. Of course, there's always the risks that come with an old tank/old equipment, but hopefully this will work out. I am still in talks with the seller because they want all their fish rehomed to the same place which may not be feasible, but I'm trying to help make that a reality. It may result in me ending up with a grown parrot and some other grown SA cichlids, so I'll have to do some thinking about that, but it's an interesting lead at least! Fingers crossed!

Thanks to all of you for joining me on this journey!

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Hi Guys!
Oof, there's no way I'd afford the water bill that came with RO water for the tank, since in addition to the RO system itself, it's something like 3 gallons down the drain for every 1 gallon filtered if I understand correctly...
I love the idea of rainbows though! I'll have to do some more research into that. I assume they get along okay with a parrot? There were quite a few parrots swimming around in the LFS tanks, so I assume they wouldn't keep selling them if people kept coming back telling them that they die (the people at the LFS are so awesome and knowledgeable, they seem like the kind of folks who actually care about the well being of the fish ; I can't justify the $$ of buying a new tank through them, but can't wait to give them my fish and plant business!).

Also, update, I found a great deal on a 125 gallon tank on craigslist, it's bigger than I originally planned but I get the whole setup (cycled!!) and it comes out to less than what I would have to pay for all new stuff for a 75g. Of course, there's always the risks that come with an old tank/old equipment, but hopefully this will work out. I am still in talks with the seller because they want all their fish rehomed to the same place which may not be feasible, but I'm trying to help make that a reality. It may result in me ending up with a grown parrot and some other grown SA cichlids, so I'll have to do some thinking about that, but it's an interesting lead at least! Fingers crossed!

Thanks to all of you for joining me on this journey!

Oh wow! We're complete strangers, yet I'm weirdly excited for you! That sounds amazing, the lead on the tank. Sounds like it would be worth it. All of my set ups have come second hand with equipment, and apart from one filter failing which didn't matter since it was a little cheap one, and I had a spare anyway, haven't had a problem And the things you could do with a 125g!

Cherish that fish store, it can be really hard to find a good LFS, always great news when someone finds a good one!

 

[HoldenOn]

Hi welcome to the forum really great when people get back into the hobby!

So the first question we will ask you is how hard is your water? You mentioned your ph is rated as 8-9 which is really high (african cichlid territory) but I would recommend you get an API master test kit and check your tap water to get a more exact reading. If you can get a hardness test too that would be good but you can probably get your hardness rating off your water company website too?

For sand most people here use play sand - there is a popular brand that our US members use but I cant remember the name. If you did want to go darker just be careful when they say its aquarium safe paint as I dont fully trust this... I'd always recommend going for a brand that uses natural substrates like JBL, ADA and DOOA (there are others but these are the ones I know). If you use sand you should also check out root tab fertilisers which will help your plants no end.

Your plant list is a good starting point but I would try to narrow down which type of Anubias, Valis, Crypt etc you want as they can be quite varied in size and ease of growth. I'd also recommend checking out Hygrophila Siamensis 53b, Limnophilla Siamensis and Cardomine Lyrata which are all fast growing easy plants.

Depending on your water will help dictate what fish are best to keep. Parrots are quite hard to judge what is best for them because we dont know what they are decended from as a hybrid fish - most people think they are a mix of central and south american cichlids so you have conflicting requirements between hard and soft water fish which could mean they dont have long life spans. Ideally you will want neutral water in terms of ph and hardness to try and cater for both sides of their genes.

Parrots will also dig a lot so you will need to choose a lot of plants that grow on wood or rocks or where you can guard the roots with decor to avoid them being unlodged before the roots take hold. It is also going to be hard to get your tank to a level where monthly water changes are achievable with parrots as they are quite large waste producers so you need to take that into account. Tanks that can achieve big gaps between water changes are generally stocked with smaller fish and around 50-60% of what would be assumed as full stocked.

Lets work out what your water is like in terms of hardness before suggesting fish to go with the parrots though

Wills

Quikrete is the sand . Make sure to get the play sand, the other stuff can be spiky!

 

[mcordelia]

Hi! update!
We are going to go take a look at the 125 this weekend! I talked with the seller and it sounds like rehoming the fish is going to work out for the most part, and if I do end up with a few that she isn't able to rehome I talked with the LFS and they are willing to sell them on so the logistics should work out in the big picture.

I do have a couple of questions for you guys though, regarding the condition of the tank:
She's owned the tank for "a couple of years", and bought it used herself. Based on pictures, the stand (and canopy) are solid wood, painted. She said the tank sits crooked because her floor is not level, so that's a potential red flag. What is the typical "lifespan" of an aquarium? What if it is 10 years old? 20 years old? 50 years old? What things should I check when I go and look at it tomorrow to determine if there are any warnings that it might leak? I read somewhere that if a tank starts to bow it will fail imminently, so I will bring my huge level with me and check in every direction, but anything else?
Based on the pictures, the stand is solid wood, and it looks like someone built it themselves. It's clearly stood for a few years at least, so I'm not super worried about it, but is there anything that is important to look for in the stand?

Thanks so much!