New Starter Tanks (Cichlid & Freshwater)

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Bluesand1313

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Hello, i've been here before and i'm not new to fish keeping. I've had a 10gal fish tank for 10 or so years, with no issues. I have had many betta fish (not that they all die, i've had a bunch at one time and eventually they passed on). At one point I had guppies, ottos, and platties (which ended up giving birth). I unfortunately wasn't equipped to handle fry's so they all died. I bought baby fish food and looked it all up but still I couldn't figure it out. It wasn't a good experience for me and I felt bad so I gave my remaining fish to a fellow friend. After that, I haven't had any more fish.
 
But, i'll be moving out soon and I'm thinking about one fish tank in the hallway and one in the living room. However, I'd like advice on compatible fish with my freshwater tank and tips/compatibility advice with my cichlid tank, as i've never had one before.
 
Cichlid Tank:
Basically, any advice is welcome. I'd also like help with compatible fish. I was thinking of having these fish in a 75+ gallon tank;
2 Acei Cichlid
2 African Cichlid
2 Auratus Cichlid
1 Bala Shark
2 Electric Yellow Cichlid
1 Green Terror Cichlid
2 Kennyi African Cichlid
1 Jewel Cichlid
 
Freshwater Tank:
I'm just looking for compatible fish help. I did look to see but i'm not 100% sure. (I've also never owned shrimp before). I was thinking of having these guys in a 50+ gallon tank;
4 Otos
3 Ghost Shrimp
1 Gourami
4 Red Wag Platys
6 Cardinal Tetras
4 Lyretail Mollies
 
Thanks! :)
 
I would be careful with putting a tank in a hallway, especially if you have timber floors i.e not a slab concrete floor, since many timber floors have give in them and with frequent walking up and down the hallway the tank may get some undesired movement causing the tank/ stand to sway. Also in a hallway because its generally transient, as in your usually moving past not lingering, the fish may end up being more skittish every time somebody does move past the tank. Ideally I would always put a fish tank where you can comfortably sit and enjoy watching them, while they in turn watch you.
 
I cant really help you with your selection of cichlids, since my limited experience with them in general has been " does not play well with others" . But I do know if setting up a rift valley type cichlid tank then your best bet is to get all males. This way they show the best colour, and there is no chance of accidental cross breeding also it reduces the chances of breeding aggression.
 
As for your compatible tank I would increase the otocinclus to as far as room and budget will allow. Otocinclus are social fish and need plenty of company of their own kind. I would not introduce oto's to a newly established tank, they eat diatoms and biofilm rather than algae and there is not plenty of the right food source in a new tank to support otocinclus.
Mollies do better in slightly hard to salty water, but I have seen them living just fine in pure fresh water.
Platties too tend to do better in hard water, although I kept some for years in pure fresh water, just keep in mind with platties and mollies (and guppies) they are usually kept in shops etc with salt tonics to make the water hard, this same water is not suitable for soft water species such as gourami and tetra. By leaving out the mollies and platties you can increase your tetra shoal size which will make the tetras happier and behave more naturally.
 
Even though tetras and gouramis are from different sides of the world they at least have similar water requirements and will work well with otocinclus. Other fish that also work well with gourami and tetra are almost any of the corydoras species ( usually found along side tetras naturally in the wild) and khuli loaches which are found in the same general countries as gourami.
 
Depending on what type of gourami you get will really depend on the ghost shrimp surviving. Shrimp are naturally on a gouramis food list. I find shrimp relatively easy to keep, but watch out when purchasing them because many places will call any clear looking shrimp ghost shrimp. Many a person has unwittingly purchased macrobachium shrimp and found out the hard way macrobachiums are not generally any good to have with fish. Because of your desire to also have shrimp I would also have live plants in the tank, as most shrimp spend almost all their time hunting through plant life for food tidbits. Other shrimp you may be interested in are Cherry shrimp (many colours to choose from now, just don't mix the colours), Bamboo shrimp (but these are filter feeders and are fairly specialised), Amano shrimp, even pinocho or rednosed shrimp.
 
Hello Blue,
 
before chosing fish it would be good to know your water parameters. What is your temporary and permanent hardness? Are you willing to change them by using reverse osmosis?
 
So I will only comment on your cichlid choice: Mixing different locations is not a good thing as requirements differ. Also from my personal experience those different cichlids "don't play well together" (lovely describtion @Baccus) as there communication is slightly different. It is better to stick to one location only and strictly. Which also means not mixing fish from different African Great Lakes (different water). Moreover 75g is at the lower end for any Great Lake setup and is defnitely too small for Green Terrors, except you want to keep a single fish only.
 
I second that you should not mix cichlids like this.  The jewel should be kept alone.  The water requirements would not work.  Some of the fish need hard water and some need soft.  Are you on the ground floor?  75 gallons of water will weigh in at 600 pounds or 272 kilograms.  Plus filter, substrate, lighting, etc.  It will get heavy fast. 
 
The second list should fit in a 35 gallon tank.  I would start with a single tank and get that established before getting the second larger tank.  I have a 55 gallon, two 29 gallons, a 10 gallon and a 6 gallon tank.  I spend a good 10 hours a week in maintenance alone.  Maybe more.  
 
Thank you all for your answers.
 
 
Baccus said:
I would be careful with putting a tank in a hallway, especially if you have timber floors i.e not a slab concrete floor, since many timber floors have give in them and with frequent walking up and down the hallway the tank may get some undesired movement causing the tank/ stand to sway. Also in a hallway because its generally transient, as in your usually moving past not lingering, the fish may end up being more skittish every time somebody does move past the tank. Ideally I would always put a fish tank where you can comfortably sit and enjoy watching them, while they in turn watch you.
 
I cant really help you with your selection of cichlids, since my limited experience with them in general has been " does not play well with others" . But I do know if setting up a rift valley type cichlid tank then your best bet is to get all males. This way they show the best colour, and there is no chance of accidental cross breeding also it reduces the chances of breeding aggression.
 
As for your compatible tank I would increase the otocinclus to as far as room and budget will allow. Otocinclus are social fish and need plenty of company of their own kind. I would not introduce oto's to a newly established tank, they eat diatoms and biofilm rather than algae and there is not plenty of the right food source in a new tank to support otocinclus.
Mollies do better in slightly hard to salty water, but I have seen them living just fine in pure fresh water.
Platties too tend to do better in hard water, although I kept some for years in pure fresh water, just keep in mind with platties and mollies (and guppies) they are usually kept in shops etc with salt tonics to make the water hard, this same water is not suitable for soft water species such as gourami and tetra. By leaving out the mollies and platties you can increase your tetra shoal size which will make the tetras happier and behave more naturally.
 
Even though tetras and gouramis are from different sides of the world they at least have similar water requirements and will work well with otocinclus. Other fish that also work well with gourami and tetra are almost any of the corydoras species ( usually found along side tetras naturally in the wild) and khuli loaches which are found in the same general countries as gourami.
 
Depending on what type of gourami you get will really depend on the ghost shrimp surviving. Shrimp are naturally on a gouramis food list. I find shrimp relatively easy to keep, but watch out when purchasing them because many places will call any clear looking shrimp ghost shrimp. Many a person has unwittingly purchased macrobachium shrimp and found out the hard way macrobachiums are not generally any good to have with fish. Because of your desire to also have shrimp I would also have live plants in the tank, as most shrimp spend almost all their time hunting through plant life for food tidbits. Other shrimp you may be interested in are Cherry shrimp (many colours to choose from now, just don't mix the colours), Bamboo shrimp (but these are filter feeders and are fairly specialised), Amano shrimp, even pinocho or rednosed shrimp.
 
Since i'll (most) likely be moving into the same complex I live now (just different unit), the floors are tiled and on ground level. I'll take into consideration of the fish being jumpy, would it help if I put lots of hiding/exploring places for them? Or is it just the constant movement that would freak them out?
 
I've had otos before and I love them so much. They're such funny little guys, and mine were pretty hardy. I loved watching them hang out with what seemed like their "friends" and just follow each other around the tank. I've only really had 4 at a time, I can increase the number to 6 though if it would make them happier.
 
I've also had red wags before in a tank with guppies so they mixed well, but i'll take them out since it's a different water type. The only problem with that is I like a lot of colour and species diversity, so i'm trying to make that work while still hopefully sticking to whats best for the fish and matching types (which is why I asked advice from you guys).
 
As for the shrimp I was thinking of getting one of the bigger gourami's as a nice change, but if that'll make it more likely for it to eat the shrimp then perhaps i'll get a dwarf again instead. I used to have a powder blue named Blue and he had a great personality, he would feel the bag of any new fish with his feelers and spit water at my hand when I went to feed them. I wouldn't mind having something like that again, although I know you can only have one male in a tank if I remember correctly.
 
And I was definitely planning on having a live plant tank. I love the look of them, and it's the best for the fish as well so it's a win-win.
 
hobby5 said:
Hello Blue,
 
before chosing fish it would be good to know your water parameters. What is your temporary and permanent hardness? Are you willing to change them by using reverse osmosis?
 
So I will only comment on your cichlid choice: Mixing different locations is not a good thing as requirements differ. Also from my personal experience those different cichlids "don't play well together" (lovely describtion @Baccus) as there communication is slightly different. It is better to stick to one location only and strictly. Which also means not mixing fish from different African Great Lakes (different water). Moreover 75g is at the lower end for any Great Lake setup and is defnitely too small for Green Terrors, except you want to keep a single fish only.
 
I'll be honest, i'm not the best with water. I usually get a good filter, heater, and then let it do it's own thing. As for the cichlids, I suppose i'll have to look more into where each one comes from. I heard they don't mix well and I thought i'd looked and made sure they all came from the same area but I think instead I may have just separated old/new cichlids. I think I looked up the size they got too and calculated it, I used the inch per gallon rule, I think.
And I did say 75 or bigger, though there is still a possibility it could only be 75 but i'm hoping for larger.
 
Vethian said:
I second that you should not mix cichlids like this.  The jewel should be kept alone.  The water requirements would not work.  Some of the fish need hard water and some need soft.  Are you on the ground floor?  75 gallons of water will weigh in at 600 pounds or 272 kilograms.  Plus filter, substrate, lighting, etc.  It will get heavy fast. 
 
The second list should fit in a 35 gallon tank.  I would start with a single tank and get that established before getting the second larger tank.  I have a 55 gallon, two 29 gallons, a 10 gallon and a 6 gallon tank.  I spend a good 10 hours a week in maintenance alone.  Maybe more.  
 
The living rooms (where I would keep the cichlid tank) are on ground floor as well yes. I wouldn't put that large of a tank on a higher floor.
I would probably end up starting with the smaller tank and getting the cichlid one later on, mostly because I'm more familiar with common freshwater fish and (obviously) not that educated with cichlids. I'd want to learn a lot more before purchasing anything.
 
The oto's will certainly enjoy having a couple more of their own kind, and 6 is a fairly safe number to help them feel like they are in a group.
 
Its handy that the tanks will be on the ground floor, I have seen tanks sway an aweful lot on old/ aging timber floors every time anybody moved within cooee of the tank. It really depends on the fish (and species) but I find fish that only have fleeting views of people moving past, tend to be more skittish over fish that are accustomed to you casually relaxing nearby and viewing them. Plants may help, they usually help fearful fish feel braver.
 
Guppies and red wags (platies) will usually tolerate the same water since they both generally like hard water. If you can source some guppies that have been bred and raised consistently  in soft water you could still mix them with your other soft water fish. I have been keeping guppies in unaltered locally town supplied water (unaltered in that I do not add salts or conditioners only water treatments to move chlorine and chloramines), and these guppies now when I sell them I have to tell people not to add salts to their water. Even my local pet shop has a separate tank for my guppies and clearly lists them as soft water, as apposed to their commercially bred/ supplied guppies that have the notices on their tanks about adding salts/ conditioners to their water.
But even if you can source some soft water guppies I would still look at increasing the tetra numbers, instead of getting guppies, mollies or platies since a large shoal of tetras weaving in and out of plants in a planted tank looks amazing.
 
With shrimp you could look at getting something like red cherry shrimp, allowing them to breed up and then add a gourami. That way hopefully the shrimp are breeding up a storm and creating a colony that can survive some predation by a gourami. But generally if the shrimp feel threatened they will remain hidden rather than being out on display. A larger breed of shrimp such as Amano may fair better with even a dwarf gourami.
 
When you say you like a lot of colour and species diversity do you have a preference for a particular fish colour? Or do you want contrasts?
Since cardinal tetras are red and blue and like soft water, either a coral blue or honey gourami would complement them well. If you wanted another colour to go with the reds and blues rasboras are a nice active fish which also like soft water, Harlequin rasboras spring to mind and have a tetra shaped body.
 
Many people don't like khuli loaches because they remind them of snakes, but the striped khuli loaches can have very striking patterns, and I think the only species as peaceful as Khuli loaches are corydoras. A striking corydoras is C. strebia and they don't mind slightly warmer water than some of the other corydoras. Or you could go with an active little shoal of dwarf/ pygmy corys which are quite sweet.
 
Alright, so this is what i've got now:
 
6 Otos
3 Amano Shrimp OR 5 Red Cherry Shrimp (to start off with)
1 Dwarf Gourami
10 Cardinal Tetras
1 Khuli Loach
6 Cory Catfish
6 Rasboras
 
As for the cichlids, I thought i'd do a bit more research and FINALLY found a forum that told me which fish were from which area, so this is what i've got now:
 
3 Acei Cichlids
4 Auratus Cichlids
4 Electric Yellow/Blue Cichlids
3 Bumblebee Cichlids
3 Kennyi Cichlids
3 Zebra Cichlids
 

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