New fish! Whoops, impulse buy...!

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As long as there aren't eggs or you don't allow them to hatch there is nothing wrong.
There is some discussion if the C.schultzei is a specific species or also a type of Aeneus. So in that perspective the LFS-guy is (also) correct.

Ah, that makes sense, thank you!
Yes, to be honest, I've raised 4-5 bronze spawns now (I've lost track of how many now!) and with this last batch being such a big one especially, I'm a bit burned out on raising them at this point! It was fun, don't get me wrong, and good experience, but I'd already thought that I might collect any future eggs as soon as I see them and prevent them beginning to grow...

Maybe once the Venezuelan's are mature I'll put them in a black cory only spawning tank and try to raise some of those, and I've been tempted to breed the Sterbai at some point too, but not really wanting to breed any more cories at the moment. It's enough right now that the pygmies continue to spawn and produce a lot of young, and the person I'm trading with says that the pseudomugli's breed pretty prolifically too, so I'll have my hands full, if all goes well there!

Should the big cory gang spawn and any eggs escape my notice and fry raise themselves in their tank (has happened before!) then I'll make sure to keep those myself, and not let the potential mix enter the hobby. Really glad you're here, so I know now about the potential for crossbreeding! I want to be responsible with them. Thank you, you're a star :drinks:
 
Aaaww, that's so sweet, thank you :) I'm sure the presence of the other cories helps a lot.
I feel a bit guilty for getting them now, when I'm getting a larger tank at the weekend and will have to put them through the upheaval of a transfer, so soon after getting them. But I don't get out to that side of Bristol often and it's expensive for me to go, so it was get them today, or not at all. Will try to minimise stress for all the fish through it all, of course.
No problem!
Yes you are most definitely right! They are communicating to each other and your cories you've had for a while are saying: "Chill it's alright. This is a good home and you most likely won't die"
 
Those are definitely very beautiful cories! The list of cories I'd love to keep is super long already, and I know for sure that there are a lot of C numbers that I've never seen too!
Now do you fancy the gold lasers, or the green?

Oh, some really nice shrimp in store too, along with the usual neos, there was a tank of bee shrimp that caught my eye because they were a really beautiful and richly coloured white and red striped, but at £12.99 EACH, I literally gasped at the idea of how much you'd have to spend to establish a colony! Outside my budget, for sure!
I have orange laser and prefer orange to green but i'm told the green have much more of a fluorescent glow at night. to be honest i'm not that happy with the orange laser because they are in a heavily planted aquarium and almost never come out into the open. I mean what good is a fish you never see? The eques never hide - even my pygmy stay out in the open - though in the back of the tank - but the orange laser almost never show themselves.
 
For sure, they're pretty fish! And some species have incredible fins. There's so much variety in these psuedomugli's and dwarf rainbows, there really is. Check out psuedomugli gertrudae!
View attachment 164679

And threadfin rainbows (they're not always so red though)
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Or forktails! There were forktails in the store too, I remember now
View attachment 164681

And so many more! Lovely little fish, so good for smaller planted tanks
I had forktails for a while - maybe 18 months but then i decided i didn't like them much so gave them to the lfs. They have sort of a funky swim that kind of annoyed my sense of sensibility.
 
I had forktails for a while - maybe 18 months but then i decided i didn't like them much so gave them to the lfs. They have sort of a funky swim that kind of annoyed my sense of sensibility.
You gave them back because you don't like the way they swim?
Not to be too harsh but I find that a bit cruel.
I laugh but it is upsetting to hear
 
I had forktails for a while - maybe 18 months but then i decided i didn't like them much so gave them to the lfs. They have sort of a funky swim that kind of annoyed my sense of sensibility.
I didn't really see how they swam in the store, will have to look out for that next time!
Sorry about the hiding lazers, that does kinda suck! Maybe try rescaping the tank and see if another arrangement makes them come out into the open more or something? Maybe... hmm, it's a tough one!

Yep, my pygmies are often out in the open. They spook easily when something passes the tank or I approach, but if I stay still they soon come back out.
 
I'm justifying an impulse buy to myself since these are really a colour morph of Corydoras aeneus, bronze cories, so they'll fit right in with my bronze and albino school, and I'll also be upgrading to a 70g tank at the weekend, so there's room for them. :D:fish:
(I was wrong, likely not C.aeneus, but another closely related species, so will make sure they don't successfully crossbreed).
I feel a bit guilty for getting them now, when I'm getting a larger tank at the weekend and will have to put them through the upheaval of a transfer, so soon after getting them. But I don't get out to that side of Bristol often and it's expensive for me to go, so it was get them today, or not at all. Will try to minimise stress for all the fish through it all, of course.

Just an update on how they're all doing! The black Venezuelan cories have settled in wonderfully, almost always visible in the open feeding part of the tank, snuffling around there and on the plant leaves, visiting the surface at times, and doing well with the other cories.

There was a big delay in getting my hands on the sized tank I wanted to upgrade them to, which works out well for them really since they've had time to settle in and calm down from the stress of moving into a new home, before I put them through the upheaval of a tank upgrade. :) They really are gorgeous little fish and don't seem shy at all, and they're exactly the same size as the last batch of bronzes I bred, so I know they're only a few months old. It's hard to be sure of gender at this size, but I think they likely are two males and one female, which is what I wanted.
So as soon as possible, they'll be moving from their current Fluval tank which has a footprint of 80cm by 35cm, 48cm H, and a volume of 35.5 US gallons/134L, to a Fluval Roma 240, which is 240 litres/63 US gallons, and 120cm long by 40cm wide, so a much better footprint than the current tank, and the perfect size to fit on the large reinforced cabinet I use as a tank stand. :)

Really pleased about that since I knew I'd made a mistake by buying the current tank shortly after setting it up. I just have too many cories for that size tank, but I think the new one will be perfect for the six sterbai, 3 venezuelan, 2 albino aeneus, and eight bronzes. Oh, not forgetting the two L181 Peppermint plecos! Looking forward to re-scaping the tank since I was never quite happy with the way the current one turned out, and said at the time that I really wished I'd waited until I found a longer tank, so the cories would have a larger open area to snuffle around, and to make the scape work better;
DSCF9260.JPG

Sadly though, I did lose one of the otos around a week after getting them. :( Just found the body surrounded by MTS when I turned the tank light on. No obvious signs on the body for cause of death, but I'm not a fish pathologist either...

Wasn't starvation at least - they've all got round tummies, lots of tank algae, plants and almond leaves with microcritters, along with algae wafers I add. I've been keeping a close eye on them and the tank since the otos and red neons are new, and I know that otos are vulnerable to starving. The one that passed away was one of the ones that had a shortened, damaged tail when I got them though, so my best guess would be a bacterial infection and stress combined.

The rest of the otos, along with my original two, are very active though! The whole tank is very active, really like the mix of fish together, socially at least. Otos are more relaxed and brave living with the pygmy cories, often swimming together! Adorable when they do that. The new otos also coloured up really well once in the planted tank. Their backs are almost a solid deep grey, while my originals are more of a mottled brown, so I think I have a mix of three or more species (or is sub-species?) of otocinclus again. The new ones are beautiful, happy I got those as well as the black cories because it's lovely to have a better number of otos together again. Seeing my original two are definitely more active now they have friends again! Hopefully the rest all make it, a group of seven isn't a bad number, and have maintained that many in this tank before. :)

I actually have another tank set aside to upgrade these guys too! Not a huge upgrade, going from a 15.5g to a 22g (I think it was, need to double check measurements) but it'll be an upgrade nonetheless. That one will be my softwater tank, and if water remains stable with the pygmy colony and otos, I may add a nano schooling fish for the mid-upper level and some colour, like chili rasbora, kubatoi or celestials maybe. Not sure yet, long list of those types of small schooling planted tank nano fish on my dream list!

Then this 15.5g will be the psuedomugli tank, and possibly a few male Endlers's tank I'm thinking :D They seem to like the few elderly male guppies I have them with now, I wonder if perhaps the guppies act a bit like a dither fish for them, because the red neons are pretty brave and come to the feeding area now when I feed them, not spooking and hiding away when I'm next to the tank now. :)
 
Those Venezuelan Corydora are absolutely stunning, hope they maintain that colour. Could I ask what your GH is @AdoraBelle Dearheart? I want to live somewhere where I am able to access soft water and also be able to visit RSPB places and nature reserves with my camera.
 
Those Venezuelan Corydora are absolutely stunning, hope they maintain that colour. Could I ask what your GH is @AdoraBelle Dearheart? I want to live somewhere where I am able to access soft water and also be able to visit RSPB places and nature reserves with my camera.
Hi! Sure, thank you! And no problem!
I'd really love to live somewhere with soft water straight from the tap too! That's the dream for most fishkeepers I think, since the vast majority of fish we keep are soft water fish, and the options for those of us stuck with hard water are so much more limited. We're pretty much stuck with a choice of cichlids, livebearers or rainbowfish - and not much else! It's also fairly easy to increase hardness in water, for those living in soft water who want hard, but not easy to decrease hardness, meaning either installing and expensive (and wasteful) RO system, or using rainwater which has it's own risks and potential downfalls.

What fish do you keep, and what's your hardness? :DI think I remember seeing that it's even harder in London? :(

I use a mix of tap and rain water for my small, soft water tank to lower the GH to an acceptable level, but had to get a second water butt to have enough rainwater, and only really enough to keep a 15g for my pygmy cories and otos.

This tank with the cories though is straight tap water, which here has a GH of 253ppm. Most cories need softer water, but I inherited two bronzes and looked them up, and they can tolerate hardness up to 268ppm, according to Seriously Fish, which is a source I trust! There are a few cory species out there that can live in harder water. Not as many, but some, if you look for them! A cory loving friend of mine delved into research and helped compile a list for me of some harder water cories, including Corydoras Sterbai, who can live in a range of 1 to 15°H. Sorry, I can't remember/find the chart to convert that, but I know that mine is within that range since I checked before getting Sterbai cories. :)

The black Venzualan's; there's some confusion and lack of clarification when it comes to their origins and official species classification. @Byron , you wouldn't happen to have any info from Ian Fuller about what he thinks of these fish, and whether they're truly a colour variation line bred version of C.aeneus, would you?

@Fish4dawin At the time I got the black Venezuelan, I knew they weren't a wild species exactly, that they're not from Venezuela, but were produced by a European breeder relatively recently. Everything I'd read said they're merely a colour morph mutation of C.aeneus, the bronze cory, so I had no worries about getting them, since they'd need the same conditions as the bronzes I already have. Some are now saying they're C.schultzei, but Seriously Fish says this is synonymous with C.aeneus, so it's very confusing!

SF is still classifying these black Venezuelans as a type of C.aeneus, with the same care requirements though, until anything official changes, so I feel okay with keeping them at the same hardness and in the same conditions as my bronzes. :)
More info on this from Seriously Fish below;

"C. schultzei has been routinely misapplied to a melanistic strain of aquarium C. aeneus which exhibits a blackish colour pattern, is often traded as ‘C. schultzei black’ and said to be exported from Venezuela.

The melanistic fish were in fact first recorded in Germany in the early 1990s with a handful of dark-coloured fry appearing in a batch captive-bred from a form of C. aeneus.

These were line-bred to fix the unusual trait and subsequently appeared in the trade.

The fry possess orangish fins as do those of a form of C. aeneus exported from the llanos of Colombia and Venezuela which is able to darken its colouration when stressed and known as ‘C. venezuelanus black’ (see below for more about this form), so this is where the confusion may have started.

As a result the line-bred fish now tend to be traded under both of these names, despite neither being correct, and the appearance of wild ‘C. venezuelanus black’ remains somewhat vague with more than one species possibly confused under the name.

The name C. schultzei has also been applied to a fish usually exported from Peru and sometimes referred to as ‘gold flash’ or ‘Peru gold-stripe’ cory (not to be confused with the ‘gold laser’, CW010, or ‘gold stripe’, CW014/C023, forms).

This does appear distinct from other C. aeneus-type fish and may well prove to be so, but because the type locality of C. schultzei is not known, the original description has proven unobtainable thus far, and it remains invalid in an official sense, we’ve chosen to retain the name in synonymy with C. aeneus for the time being.

C. venezuelanus is another name that has not been considered scientifically valid for a number of years but is widely used in aquarium literature.

As with C. schultzei this appears to have occurred in the absence of any detailed rediagnosis and it’s unclear which characters should be used to define the species.

The name may well be applicable to a Corydoras sp. inhabiting the states of Miranda, Aragua and Carabobo in northern Venezuela, although it’s more often used in reference to ‘C. venezuelanus black’.

However in the absence of official confirmation C. venezuelanus is also retained as a synonym of C. aeneus here."
 
Hi! Sure, thank you! And no problem!
I'd really love to live somewhere with soft water straight from the tap too! That's the dream for most fishkeepers I think, since the vast majority of fish we keep are soft water fish, and the options for those of us stuck with hard water are so much more limited. We're pretty much stuck with a choice of cichlids, livebearers or rainbowfish - and not much else! It's also fairly easy to increase hardness in water, for those living in soft water who want hard, but not easy to decrease hardness, meaning either installing and expensive (and wasteful) RO system, or using rainwater which has it's own risks and potential downfalls.

What fish do you keep, and what's your hardness? :DI think I remember seeing that it's even harder in London? :(

I use a mix of tap and rain water for my small, soft water tank to lower the GH to an acceptable level, but had to get a second water butt to have enough rainwater, and only really enough to keep a 15g for my pygmy cories and otos.

This tank with the cories though is straight tap water, which here has a GH of 253ppm. Most cories need softer water, but I inherited two bronzes and looked them up, and they can tolerate hardness up to 268ppm, according to Seriously Fish, which is a source I trust! There are a few cory species out there that can live in harder water. Not as many, but some, if you look for them! A cory loving friend of mine delved into research and helped compile a list for me of some harder water cories, including Corydoras Sterbai, who can live in a range of 1 to 15°H. Sorry, I can't remember/find the chart to convert that, but I know that mine is within that range since I checked before getting Sterbai cories. :)

The black Venzualan's; there's some confusion and lack of clarification when it comes to their origins and official species classification. @Byron , you wouldn't happen to have any info from Ian Fuller about what he thinks of these fish, and whether they're truly a colour variation line bred version of C.aeneus, would you?

@Fish4dawin At the time I got the black Venezuelan, I knew they weren't a wild species exactly, that they're not from Venezuela, but were produced by a European breeder relatively recently. Everything I'd read said they're merely a colour morph mutation of C.aeneus, the bronze cory, so I had no worries about getting them, since they'd need the same conditions as the bronzes I already have. Some are now saying they're C.schultzei, but Seriously Fish says this is synonymous with C.aeneus, so it's very confusing!

SF is still classifying these black Venezuelans as a type of C.aeneus, with the same care requirements though, until anything official changes, so I feel okay with keeping them at the same hardness and in the same conditions as my bronzes. :)
More info on this from Seriously Fish below;

"C. schultzei has been routinely misapplied to a melanistic strain of aquarium C. aeneus which exhibits a blackish colour pattern, is often traded as ‘C. schultzei black’ and said to be exported from Venezuela.

The melanistic fish were in fact first recorded in Germany in the early 1990s with a handful of dark-coloured fry appearing in a batch captive-bred from a form of C. aeneus.

These were line-bred to fix the unusual trait and subsequently appeared in the trade.

The fry possess orangish fins as do those of a form of C. aeneus exported from the llanos of Colombia and Venezuela which is able to darken its colouration when stressed and known as ‘C. venezuelanus black’ (see below for more about this form), so this is where the confusion may have started.

As a result the line-bred fish now tend to be traded under both of these names, despite neither being correct, and the appearance of wild ‘C. venezuelanus black’ remains somewhat vague with more than one species possibly confused under the name.

The name C. schultzei has also been applied to a fish usually exported from Peru and sometimes referred to as ‘gold flash’ or ‘Peru gold-stripe’ cory (not to be confused with the ‘gold laser’, CW010, or ‘gold stripe’, CW014/C023, forms).

This does appear distinct from other C. aeneus-type fish and may well prove to be so, but because the type locality of C. schultzei is not known, the original description has proven unobtainable thus far, and it remains invalid in an official sense, we’ve chosen to retain the name in synonymy with C. aeneus for the time being.

C. venezuelanus is another name that has not been considered scientifically valid for a number of years but is widely used in aquarium literature.

As with C. schultzei this appears to have occurred in the absence of any detailed rediagnosis and it’s unclear which characters should be used to define the species.

The name may well be applicable to a Corydoras sp. inhabiting the states of Miranda, Aragua and Carabobo in northern Venezuela, although it’s more often used in reference to ‘C. venezuelanus black’.

However in the absence of official confirmation C. venezuelanus is also retained as a synonym of C. aeneus here."
Awesome, yeah my GH comes out at around 290ppm :/ unfortunately, might need to start with RO since I really want corydoras and diamond rummynoses. If I can't lower it I will go for dwarf neon rainbowfish, have had them before but only in a group of 6, so might go up to 8 or 10 perhaps. I went to a LFS 30 mins ago and they had Sterbai and Bronze corydoras, plus albino but the sterbai were £12.99 for ONE. The bronzes were a better deal with 3 for £8.50 but I hesitated on picking them up because I had never been there before and I wasn't sure if the fish were ok so will get them from a more reliable place I guess.
 
Ian Fuller's information:

The truth about the Black Cory

Many people believe that the Black Cory is native to Venezuela and it is not. Even members of the trade make the mistake and perpetuate the information. The story of the "Black" cory started in the early 1990's with Hartmut Eberhardt in Weimar, Germany, where he lived. He was breeding the C. aeneus form we now know as C. schultzeei and was producing thousands. However amongst these many offspring small numbers of black fry were emerging, Hartmut kept and raised these to maturity, and then through controlled breeding the strain was successfully fixed. Some of these "Black" young were sold to a commercial breeder in the Czech Republic, where they were subsequently reproduced in their thousands, and it was in 1996 that they were first introduced into the UK and soon became very popular.

Now the point at which the confusion very may have started, was a discussion in the PlanetCatfish forums regarding the "Black Cory" and origin, it was mentioned that there was a dark form of another C. aeneus type we now know as C. venezuelanus that came from the Northern Guarico State of Venezuela and it is possible that this discussion triggered the confusion. The dark form of C. venezeulanus have never commercially entered the hobby.

If you are having trouble distinguishing one from the other, here is a simple guide. Young C. schultzii "Black" tend to have all reddish fins which darken with maturity. C. venezuelanus look very similar the young C. schultzei "Black". However both the normal C. venezuelanus we see in the hobby, and the dark form have reddish dorsal and adipose fins, but the caudal, anal and ventral fins are grey.

There is a short article by Shane Linder, who collected both forms of C. venezuelanus, in the Species groups section under Aeneus group - Corydoras cf venezuelanus "Northern Guarico State."

Ian Fuller
 
Ian Fuller's information:

The truth about the Black Cory

Many people believe that the Black Cory is native to Venezuela and it is not. Even members of the trade make the mistake and perpetuate the information. The story of the "Black" cory started in the early 1990's with Hartmut Eberhardt in Weimar, Germany, where he lived. He was breeding the C. aeneus form we now know as C. schultzeei and was producing thousands.
Thank you so much for finding that for me!
So from this bit, it really is a colour morph of C. aeneus then... kinda? A sub-type of C. aeneus that is now categorised as C. schultzeei?
I have no idea what sub-type my bronze cories might even be, so is it bad if my black venezeulans even did interbreed with them?
 

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