Need Advice

[adam1984]

Hi guys,

I am new to this forum so I thank you in anticipation of a response.

Ok here go’s, basically I am looking to start a large communal fish tank, probably 60*22*18, I am going to be buying the fish tank second hand.

What I want to know,

Firstly, I will be giving any fish that come with the tank to my local fish shop, when I set the tank up with no fish, should I rinse the sponges of the filter before I fill the tank, or should I not do this to minimise the risk of harming the bacteria that is already in the sponge.

Secondly should I use any chemicals other than a dechlorinator, and do I put in the dechlorinator before I put it in the tank or once the tank is filled up.

Once I have the tank set up I was planning on leaving it to stand/filter for a couple of days before I put any fish in it, should I put plants in it from day1?

I am planning on this tank being the focal point of my living room so I want it to be perfect, I work out that it is about 350-380 litres, what fish and how many should I use to start the water cycle.

I am also planning on having sand as opposed to gravel, will this have any additional impact?

Finally how many fish would a tank of this size hold once the water is at the correct levels, I am think the largest fish being plecs/red tail black sharks/ sailfin mollies.

I thank you in anticipation of a response

Adam

 

[Skins]

Hello Adam and welcome to the forum,
If you click on the links at the bottom of this post in my signature you will find some good guidelines which will answer most of your questions.

Keith.

 

[mark@swelluk]

Hi Adam,
Welcome to the site, I personally would replace all the filter sponges unless they are fairly new. As you are going to get rid of the fish I would start this as a new tank. The Bacteria in the filter will be badly damaged anyway especially if they are dry.

I would always recommend using dechlorinates and also a filter start like Cycle when starting up and replacing water. The sand should not make a difference, just make sure the filter is not too powerful for the tank and placing it too low down in the tank with sand.

I would start off with something like 6 Neons or Danios (Danios are a much hardier fish) and slowly adding over the course of 6-8 week. Judging how many fish and the size is always a difficult one as it does depend on the filtration but do your research on the adult size of the fish you purchase.

If you are wanting it to stand out in the living room I always recommend a heavily planted tank with lots of green in there. There are tons of CO2 units and add ons to help. Tetras, catfish and Discus are always a good choice, although Discus are a little more specialized so i wouldn't go with them for a while.

Take a look at the links below at the recommended items and let me know what you think:
Dechlorinates:
http/www.swelluk.com/aquarium/treatments-additives-387/dechlorinators-1294/api-stress-coat-134733.html

Filter Bacteria:
http/www.swelluk.com/aquarium/treatments-additives-387/disease-treatments-1297/api-stress-zyme-134736.html

Happy to help,
Mark C

 

[KittyKat]

Firstly, make sure you know about cycling, etc, although it sounds like you already know about it to some extent..

Firstly, I will be giving any fish that come with the tank to my local fish shop, when I set the tank up with no fish, should I rinse the sponges of the filter before I fill the tank, or should I not do this to minimise the risk of harming the bacteria that is already in the sponge.

I would personally not rinse the sponges until your first maintenance about 1 weeks after starting with the tank.. they are cycled now (probably), so let them be.

Secondly should I use any chemicals other than a dechlorinator, and do I put in the dechlorinator before I put it in the tank or once the tank is filled up.

Dechlorinate first, add water second, add filter third.

Once I have the tank set up I was planning on leaving it to stand/filter for a couple of days before I put any fish in it, should I put plants in it from day1?

It is better if you add fish immediately, otherwise the bacteria will start dying off without ammonia. You can keep it alive by adding ammonia to the tank, but then you will need to do a very large water change before adding fish.

I am planning on this tank being the focal point of my living room so I want it to be perfect, I work out that it is about 350-380 litres, what fish and how many should I use to start the water cycle.

I assume your filter is already cycled, don't cycle it again.. otherwise please do fishless cycle as, apart from all the moral implications, it is not very impressive to find dead fish floating in your focal point.

I am also planning on having sand as opposed to gravel, will this have any additional impact?

Yes, if you keep Corys, khuli loaches or any other digging fish, your fish will be happier. Play sand is just as good and considerably cheaper than aquarium sand. All substrate usually needs a few rinses before going into the tank.

Finally how many fish would a tank of this size hold once the water is at the correct levels, I am think the largest fish being plecs/red tail black sharks/ sailfin mollies.

Red tail sharks and mollies are not such nice fish.

You're looking at about 380 litres.. what about the following stocking?
* 30 schooling fish (tetras or rasboras or barbs - probably can increase that with time)
* 1m 2f bristlenose plecos or 2 rysty plecos or 3 mustard spot panaques (or almost any other plecos which max out at about 4-5")
* 10 Corys
* 1m 4f Apistogrammas or pair keyholes or pair Kribs
* pair dwarf gouramis

That's just something basic to start with.. I would take these specific species if it is your first tank:
* 30 harlequin rasboras
* 1m 2f bristlenose plecos
* 10 three-line or bronze Corys
* 1m 4f Apistogramma cacatuoides
* pair dwarf gouramis

Of course, stocking should not be too fast, and I am assuming you're having plants!

 

[rob158]

 

[adam1984]

Hi

And thank you for the speedy responses.

Firstly, in all honesty I know nothing about cycling other than the few forums that I have read, but unfortunately these offer conflicting advise, thank you for all your help guys, I do not want to take up to much of your time, feel free to tell me to bog off 

Ok to start with, I am looking at 3 fish tanks, all of which are still up and running, and will be until I collect them, so with this additional info, should I change the filter sponge, My idea of think was that the sponge was already a “living ecosystem” so to wash the sponge I would only add time on to the cycle by washing away the helpful bacteria, please correct me here if I am wrong.

I do not want to use any chemicals to get the right water levels, my thoughts are that if it occurs naturally then surely it will be more sustainable long term, is this right?

The image I have in my head at the moment, is a large piece of bog wood in the centre at the back of the tank with an airstone about a foot long to cover the front of the bogwood in an upwards cascade of bubbles, with both sides of the bog wood heavily planted, so should any of my guppies/mollies/platies have any young there will be plenty of room for them to hide.

I have had a fish tank when I was about 17, going abck a few years now, but to be honest I didn’t really look after it as well as I should have, at tat time I thought it was a case of fill it up then just feed them, I eventually switched to a pair of discuss which I did manage to breed although the fry never even reached discus shape they still had the tails when the last one died, so I am not really interested in discuss until I have had 12-18months of communal.

Finally, can anyone recommend a really good pet store that can deliver, I hate going into a tropical fish shop and finding dead fish in the tanks, I want to put healthy fish in the tank so I don’t mind paying more for a better supplier.

Ty again for all of your help

Adam

 

[waterdrop]

Hi there Adam and welcome to TFF!

I agree with KK's nice detailed post. You are at the right point to solidify your previous image of the sponge being a "living ecosystem" (which is correct as far as it goes) into a bit more detailed knowledge. Study the following three articles in our Beginners Resource Center: The Nitrogen Cycle, The Fishless Cycle and The Fish-In cycle. Your image of the bacteria being washed away is only partially correct. The beneficial bacteria we want actually adhere quite tightly to the media, like a brown stain that can be extremely hard to get off. On the other hand, some of the bacteria are also on the debris that has been trapped by the media and these can indeed be washed away when we rinse the sponge.

It is worth trying to get a feel for how long the tank you are acquiring has been established. If you are able to observe it in the previous home and all seems in order, with fish appearing healthy and energetic then the filter system is probably fine and ripe for immediate restocking to maintain the bacteria via fish. If it is a doubtful situation then be aware that you can perform a (hopefully) short fishless cycle process (with simple household ammonia, which the members would help you with) to "qualify" the biofilter portion of the filter and confirm that it is indeed fully cycled (it's extremely unlikely it wouldn't be if the tank has been established a couple of months or more.)

The knowledge of biofilters has become much more quantified than when many of us were first in the hobby and it's a valuable change. For all the frustration and delay, one of the valuable skills that our brand new beginners who have to "fishless cycle" a filter often learn here is a working knowledge of what the nitrogen cycle is really all about and what it feels like to actually raise the bacteria from scratch and a feel for what it's like when they are faltering and what to do about it. When we go from mature filter to mature filter, we sometimes never get a good feel for that. I'm not saying you should give up your chance to be "instantly cycled" by restocking your used tank and maintaining it's mature filter (you should) but it's certainly a good idea to also take the opportunity to read the articles, interact and try to catch some of the cycling knowledge.

Normal maintenance of a biofilter is to collect the old aquarium water that has just been siphoned out of the tank with a gravel (or sand) cleaning siphon in a catch bucket (often this overflows into the garden or tub while the water removal is taking place) and then to gently squeeze out the sponge in this tank water to unclog it of excess debris or to dunk the trays of ceramic gravels or whatever media bed and swish the excess debris out. Tap water (that still had chlorine/chloramines) should never be used for this because of the concern that too many bacteria would be killed by the chlorine product the water authority uses. (I'm sure you're aware of this and probably did it all those previous years.) Indeed, conditioner to remove chlorine/chloramine is usually the only chemical (in our tank water) we regularly use in freshwater fishkeeping. Seachem Prime is an excellent example of a concentrated product to do this and is the one we most often recommend to beginners.

Filter maintenance is performed roughly monthly in the midst of one of our weekly substrate-clean-water-changes. For smaller filters it might happen every two weeks, whereas for large filters it might go 6 weeks or more. The stability of nitrate(NO3) readings is a way to help settle in on this particular maintenance schedule. If nitrate levels keep trying to rise between cleanings, then perhaps cleanings need to happen more often.

~~waterdrop~~