Need A Little Help With My Fishless Cycle

[julielynn47]

I have good so far with my first fishless cycle.  Now I need a bit of advice.   The directions say " after two consecutive every other day of ammonia test readings of 0ppm" to give a snack dose.
 
This is my second consecutive every other day reading of 0ppm...I think...
 
 
It read 0 on the 10th--skip a day ( 11th )
It read 0 on the 12th---skip a day ( 13th -- which is today )
 
 
So now do I skip another day? That is two consecutive readings, but the skip a day is confusing me as to when the snack dose should be given. Do I give the snack dose today or tomorrow?  I am even confusing myself as I type!!  It kinda seems that another "every other day" needs to happen.
 
What is the correct thing to do here?
 

 

[Ch4rlie]

"after two consecutive every other day of ammonia test readings of 0ppm"
 
This means every 2nd day of testing of 0ppm ammonia
 
 
Essentially to give a snack does of 1ppm ammonia every 4th day of 0ppm ammonia but still have high (but getting lower) nitrite readings.
 
 
Well, thats what i did anyway

 

[julielynn47]

Okay thanks!  That means the little bacteria get a snack today. This is day four

 

[Ch4rlie]

Cool.
 
A 'snack' dose is one third of the usual full dose. So if you're dosing 3ppm ammonia as a full dose, then a snack is 1ppm. 2ppm ammonia as a full dose then 0.7 ppm ammonia is roughly a third, 1ppm full dosage is about 0.3ppm ammonia as a third.
 
There are various sizes of syringes you can get cheaply that will give pretty much exact doses thats required. I normally use a 1.0ml syringe that has 0.1ml increments. Very useful.

 

[julielynn47]

I have the little bottle from Dr Tim's. So I just added it by drops.
 
My initial dose was 15 drops. I got it up to 3ppm at the start. It said on the bottle 10 drops, 1 per gallon, but that did not get it up to 3ppm. So I added more.  Anyway, the 5 drops I added a while ago is only showing .25ppm on the ammonia scale now. So I guess that is good. Bacteria most be hungry. LOL 

 

[julielynn47]

So I added the snack dose yesterday and already my ammonia reading is again at 0.
The nitrites are still high. It just seems to me that i need to add more ammonia to feed the bacterial colony. I guess i am not supposed to but they ate up that ammonia so quickly. I sure dont want them to starve and die off.

Is it normal for it go back to 0 this quickly?

 

[Ch4rlie]

Yes, its pretty normal fo rthe ammonia bacs to fully colonise fairly quickly and will consume ammonia at a brisk pace.
 
Its the nitrite that takes so long to come down. So you only need to feed the ammonia 'snack' does once every 4 days or so, they will be perfectly fine.
 
A little note, if you continue to feed snack does too often, the nitrite will not have a chance to come down quickly enough and possibly having too high nitrite can cause issues with the cycling, even stalling it.
 
The problem with the test kit, it only goes up to 5ppm for nitrite. During the cycle the nitrite true reading is usually is off the scale past 5ppm, usually being between 10 to 15ppm nitrite, thats a lot. The stop point of nitrite is around 16ppm, once nitrite rises above this, you start to push the cycle to the limit and could stall things as this overwhelms the nitrite bacteria basically.
 
Of course, this is the same is true for ammonia bacteria, if you overdose the full dose of say anything above 6ppm, this can overwhelm the ammonia bacteria and again, stalls or crashes the cycle.
 
Always pays to be careful when it comes to dosing ammonia and following the article as it is a tried and tested method that works, I personally have done this cycling method to the letter at least half a dozen times

 

[julielynn47]

Okay thanks again!  I was just afraid they would starve. But I have not put in any more ammonia. I will wait until the 4th day, which will be the 17th now.  
 
The nitrite is still high, but I think it might be starting to come down a little because, when I put the chemical in the  water in the test tube, it does not immediately turn purple.  It was immediately turning purple before I ever got the lid on and started shaking it. 

 

[Ch4rlie]

The bacterias that we rely on for our tanks and filters are pretty resilient actually. Perhaps more than most folks are aware. Its the biofilm coating they have is the real protection for these bacterias.
 
If these bacs are not fed for quite some time, am talking at least a week or more, they will simply go into a dormant state. And they will awaken again at the presence of ammonia, the longer they are dormant, the longer it takes for them to awaken again.
 
In fact, in the right conditions, these bacterias can survive for weeks, even months( and I have heard from a reliable source that even up to a year is not unheard of). This is really reliant on being in the right conditions. A lot of bacteria WILL die off but some will also survive.
 
So a short term of 4 or 5 days abstinence of ammonia is definitely fine for these bacterias in most aquariums

 
 
(its far more complicated than that but as very basic laymans terms, it'll do )

 

[julielynn47]

This waiting is driving me crazy!!! LOL    The ammonia is eaten up so quickly but the nitrites are still so high.   I know and understand that it is a waiting game...but I am getting antsy.  
 
I don't know what the nitrite reading really is because it is still 5 or over, but it is coming down.  The last 2 or 3 days the solution has not immediately turned purple in the test tube before I even shake it.  So I know it is coming along, but the wait is driving me nuts.

 

[julielynn47]

I know it would help speed it along if I seeded with a piece of filter from my 55 gallon.   Would the risk of transferring any of the spores of black algae, which is not as bad in the tank as it once was, be high?

 

[Ch4rlie]

Just be patient

Easy to say I know, but honestly I do not mind the waiting and then researching in the meantime what I can put in the tank and goingt to LFS to have a look etc, as well as performing the water tests and know things are right on track, weird I know but thats me
 
As for the nitrite readings, you can do a diluted test, that would mean you can get a more accurate idea of how much nitrite thee actually is rather than just knowing its over 5ppm thats the highest on the colour test card.
 
The following link is from the Rescuing a Fish Cycle Gone WIld II, scroll down until you see the title -
 
PERFORMING DILUTED NITRITE TESTING

 

[julielynn47]

Okay, I did that.  It is still at 10 at the very least.  Patience....

 

[Ch4rlie]

At least 10ppm, ok, one thing i mention here, is that if nitrite gets too high, it can result in a stalled cycle, so its worth checking to be undoubtly sure its within the range.
 
 
From that link from earlier :
 
"However if this 50/50 diluted test result is still at the kit’s maximum level and the test kit reads to a maximum level of 8 ppm or less, you will have to do another dilution. The easiest way is to start with ¼ cup of tank water and ¾ cup of pure water. Test this mix and multiply the result by 4 this time."
 
 
So, if I remember right, its around or above 16ppm nitrite thats at the extreme range before you may see signs of the cycle going awry and even crashing.

 

[julielynn47]

I think it is moving along okay though.  I mean, used to when I put in the drops the tube turn purple before I ever got the lid on to shake it. Now it does not do that.  So surely than means it is coming down don't you think?
 
I am fixing to have to leave the house for awhile. But I will do the other dilution test when I get back home and see where that stands
 
I am doing it now...couldn't wait lol