My Fluval Edge - My First Tank

[golfzzin]

Hi,

Im totally new to this so bear with me. Got my first fish tank recently, wanted one for a while, and a visit to a friends with one made me go and finally buy one.

I brought a Fluval Edge to start with, liked the way it looked and needed something small for now. Now i know the feeling people have on this tank but i got it anyway.

So after doing a fishless cycle i now have some fish, after two days i have tested the water myself (after my lfs did one for me before buying fish) and these are my results:

Ammonia - 0
PH - 8
Nitrate - 10 - 20 ish, the colour seemed to be inbetween the two
Nitrite - 0.1

Im going to do a small water change in the next day or so as the Nitrate level worrys me. Does everything else look ok?

The fish i have are 8 Neon Tetras, only just read they shouldnt go in a new tank but its too late now, and a betta splenden. One of the neons is acting a bit strange however, staying on his own and has a bit of a swollen tummy, his colours however are nice and bright, is this cause for concern?

They all seem very happy in there and dispite having light coloured gravel their colours are much more vivid than when they first came home. The betta also seems much more relaxed, when i have the lid off he comes to the surface to see whats going on

Now these are the other things i have brought

A fluval heater, which seems to be sitting at 26 degrees

King British safe guard for my water changes

Nutrafin Cycle - do i do this weekly + when changing water?

I also brought some API stress coat and stress zyme, but i think this is the same as the above? If so il return it.

I have also brought a fluval edge algea clear just to be on the safe side.

Thanks for reading, il get some pics up soon

 

[golfzzin]

Pictures:



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The neons, the one acting strange is the one highest up in this picture



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[frida]

nitrates sound fine but I'd be more worried about the 0.1ppm nitrite reading. Just keep that down to 0ppm

Fingers crossed that the tetras will survive.

EDIT: one more thing, keep an eye on your betta. The fluval edge has the issue that there is only one small square of surface and given that bettas need surface oxygen, it might struggle a bit, but then again, it might be okay... If the betta seems to struggle, an idea would be to lower the water level.

 

[waterdrop]

Hi golfzzin and welcome to TFF!

Nice looking tank! I think Fluval Edge tanks look quite beautiful and although they are a challenge (especially for beginners) we have any number of members who have made a go of them! You've stumbled across a great forum with lots of nice members who I'm sure will pitch in and help when they can! There may be some edge owners that will give you special tips.

You are correct about neons. They (statistically) do much, much better when introduced only after the tank is at least 6 months (a long time) old and various aspects have matured in the environment of the tank. Neons also have a lot of trouble with transport and introduction and its very common to lose one or two in the process (there are plenty of small-bodied freshwater fish that are not "hobby-beautiful" that are even -more- sensitive than neons!)

I'm a little confused about your time-line. You say you tested the water "after two days" but you also mention having fishless cycled the tank prior to the fish introduction. For newcomers we always like to double check these things to start to get a correct picture.

How many days has it been since the tank was filled with water? How many days was it when the fish went in (and so forth).. let us know your exact timeline and all chemicals that went in. (I believe you are correct that you have more than one "conditioner" (the products that remove chlorine/chloramine as their main function.)

The trace of nitrite(NO2) indicates that you may be in what we call a "mini-cycle" or that you may have suffered the typical mis-information that is now universal at the retail stores about what exactly constitutes a "fishless cycle." Can you remind me what your test kit is?

~~waterdrop~~

 

[golfzzin]

EDIT: one more thing, keep an eye on your betta. The fluval edge has the issue that there is only one small square of surface and given that bettas need surface oxygen, it might struggle a bit, but then again, it might be okay... If the betta seems to struggle, an idea would be to lower the water level.

Thanks, I was worried about the betta, but now he knows where to go to get air, doesnt struggle, just goes straight to the right part of the tanks

Hi golfzzin and welcome to TFF!

I'm a little confused about your time-line. You say you tested the water "after two days" but you also mention having fishless cycled the tank prior to the fish introduction. For newcomers we always like to double check these things to start to get a correct picture.

How many days has it been since the tank was filled with water? How many days was it when the fish went in (and so forth).. let us know your exact timeline and all chemicals that went in. (I believe you are correct that you have more than one "conditioner" (the products that remove chlorine/chloramine as their main function.)

The trace of nitrite(NO2) indicates that you may be in what we call a "mini-cycle" or that you may have suffered the typical mis-information that is now universal at the retail stores about what exactly constitutes a "fishless cycle." Can you remind me what your test kit is?

~~waterdrop~~

Thanks for the reply, well, iv got a feeling the tank wasnt cycled long enough without fish, i had it just under a week with water in, kept the lights on, heater on and filter on full. Used aqua plus with the water and also nutrafin cycle that came with the tank. I took a sample to my lfs who said the levels were all at 0 and were perfect

So since the fish went in i took 20% of the water out and used nutrafin aqua aswell as some cycle, i think i used about 20%

They have been in there two days now and i just did a re-test, my results were:

Ammonia - 0
Nitrate - 50
PH - 8
Nitrite - 0.8

So i have just done another 20% water change.

I used some conditioner as well as some nutrafin cycle, i tested this water i added (before adding it, but after adding the chemicals) and the results i got were:

Nitrate - 5
Nitrite - 0

Im using a Nutrafin mini master test kit for this

Thank you again for the detailed replys

 

[waterdrop]

Hi golfzzin,

You are indeed at the very beginning of a Fish-In cycle. It hasn't really begun yet. It can take a couple of weeks sometimes before the ammonia oxidizing bacteria (we call them the A-Bacs) begin to show up in large enough numbers to cause ammonia to be processed in a detectable way and somewhat later usually before the nitrite(NO2) they produce to be helping nitrite oxidizing bacteria (N-bacs) to start to attach and grow.

The nitrite trace you are currently seeing is coming from the bottled cycle stuff you are putting in and I would stop that as you now have fish in there to drive the cycling process and all your work will be focused on *controlling* the poisons, not adding them. One confusing thing to understand right off is that our test kits are quite crude and there's a lot going on at levels below what they can detect - the beneficial bacteria we want in the filter will begin to grow just by using amounts of ammonia the fish give off that are less than our ammonia test can detect. So a Zero PPM reading after a water change doesn't mean the bacteria can't eat, it just means you are keeping your fish safe from permanent gill damage. This is why you'll see us go on about the zero to 0.25ppm safety band you'll be trying to stay in.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[golfzzin]

Thank you again for the reply waterdrop. What do you recommend i do next then? I really want to keep these little guys safe. As mentioned i have done another 20% water change today, il be re-testing daily for now to watch my levels, if my nitrate levels stay as they are shall i continue to water change daily too?

I brought a large bottle of nutrafin cycle, please dont tell me i no longer need it

Also forgot to mention, as i was doing the water change, i used the fluval hoover thingy and the betta (i have named him Dexter) kept folling the pipe round the tank, at times getting waaaay too close for comfort this added with the small hole at the top didnt make for an easy job

 

[waterdrop]

Yeah, sorry, you don't need the stuff, it'll just confuse your readings. Think of it as a charity contribution to your LFS (it probably wouldn't hurt the soil in your backyard garden!) What you do now is simple but challanging in its steady nature: test twice a day, morning and evening. Always enter at least a single log line in your aquarium notebook. Test ammonia, nitrite(NO2) and occasionally pH and even more occasionally nitrate(NO3). Its ok to see traces of ammonia and/or nitrite lower than 0.25ppm and indeed it helps you know that you are still needed by the fish. Steadily work on what pattern of volume and/or frequency will keep your traces from going over 0.25ppm before you can be home again to retest and change water.

The way you'll eventually know its over is that you'll be able to go two days with no trace of either poison without doing any water changes. With small tanks like yours the ups and downs will be more sudden and volatile so just be on the watch and be suspicious even at the end. A "qualifying week" where you watch those double zero readings after you've had the successful two days will be very important in your case.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[golfzzin]

Thank you again for all the advise, il be reporting back my results

 

[golfzzin]

I have just done some re-testing and have had a big nitrate spike!

Heres all my results so far

After 1 week with no fish (i know this wanst long enough but i was a bit nieve)

Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0

This was a test by my lfs

Day 1 with fish

Ammonia - 0
PH - 8
Nitrate - 10 - 20ish couldnt tell exactly
Nitrite - 0.1

Day 2 with fish

Ammonia - 0
PH - 8
Nitrate - 50
Nitrite - 0.8

Did an 20% water change with these results

Day 3/4ish with fish

Ammonia - 0
PH - 7.5 i think
Nitrate - 50+ couldnt really tell from colour but it was over 50 for sure
Nitrite - 1.6 - 3.3 again couldnt really match an exact colour

I have done another 25% water change seeing these results today

skiming round the net i have read that in higher PH levels Nitrite becomes less leathal as opposed to ammonia where it does become more leathal, im still not happy with these results but is this true? None of my little fish friends seem to be gasping for air

The only thing i have added to todays water change is King British safe guard water treatment and i have left the nutrafin cycle out

Anything else i should do or just regular tests and water changes?

Thank you in advance

 

[waterdrop]

Hi golfzzin,

Yes, there's more you need to do. First off, its great that you're here and learning and that you're testing and sharing results.. it takes that openness to get better help and some beginners don't do that for whatever reason...

Your response was too "wimpy." Whenever you see a spike in either ammonia or nitrite that even threatens to go above 0.25ppm (much less actually -does- head beyond that level) you need to react with a *very large* (but good technique) gravel-clean-water-change. Changing only a quarter of the water indicates to me that perhaps someone has warned you off large water changes as being "dangerous" or "bad" for fish. The problem is that exposure to even small amounts of ammonia or nitrite is -far worse- (more stressful and does indeed cause permanent damage, a think we know from the university researchers who study fish.) Your response needed to be to change as much water as you could, down to where the fish just have that last inch or something to swim in before the refill. Note that the reason for it always being a "gravel-clean" with the gravel-cleaning siphon is not because of fish waste per se but because nitrite (and nitrate) can tend to hang down in the gravel more because of charge attractions to larger organic molecules, which are hanging down due to weight, size or still more charge attractions.

Its interesting and important to learn about toxicity charts like you've mentioned but that shouldn't get in the way of the real action needed. Remember that tissue damage varies on both a species level and an individual fish viability level, so there's a huge generalization going on with charts like those (in fact, often the data going in to those charts come from fishery species that may be far more tolerant than some of our more delicate tropicals, I believe.) What we as hobbyists have learned is to change quickly and change a lot and to use a very good conditioner (and use it in 1.5x to 2x concentration but not more than 2x in a situation such as yours) and to use rough temperature matching (ie. careful matching with your hand going back and forth between removed tank water and the tap you are adjusting.)

A small tank is more difficult because the little spikes will go so quickly up in to the levels you don't want.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[golfzzin]

Thank you again for the datailed reply waterdrop, it is very much appreciated.

As soon as i finish work tonight il do a larger water change

Thanks again

Matt.

 

[OldMan47]

Golfzzin, I wish I could agree to your request and tell you that you did not waste your money on the "Cycle" product but that would be a lie. I have used that product in extreme need, when I had an uncycled tank, was away from home and had to try almost anything to preserve my fish that I had bought on impulse. It was a futile effort to try that treatment. I ended up doing a full fishless cycle on their tank until I got those fish home. Once I had them at home, I had dozens of tanks to tap for some mature filter media and it didn't take me long to have a fully functional filter in their tank. As a new fish keeper, you do not have the luxury of fully mature filters everywhere you turn so you must do the best that you can with what you have available. WD has given you good advice about how to go about testing and controlling your ammonia and nitrites. When it comes to water changes I will go beyond what most people feel comfortable doing. If my own tanks ever show anything that I interpret as a challenging chemistry for my fish, such as traces of nitrites for instance, I simply ignore all calculations and do what I call a 90% water change. What I do is simple. I drain the water from a tank until the fish in the tank are having a hard time swimming at all. Most of my fish are not much bigger than guppies so that is fairly low. I then make sure that the replacement water is temperature matched within reason to the original tank temperature, I use my hand as the thermometer. The new water is treated with the right amount of dechlorinator and I add it using my gravel vacuum as the siphon and it is set up this way.

As soon as the fish find that they have enough water to swim about freely they look better than before I started so I am guessing my method suits them well.

 

[golfzzin]

Thank you for the advice OldMan47

So heres my update from yesterday, did a large waterchange yesterday before going to work, got home last night and the nitrates were sky high again, so i did another water change

I have woken up this morning re-tested and the nitrites are sky high again, i have tested the water going in and it gives a 0 reading.

I have done a large water change just, around 85%. Water is just slowing going back in, and i have used your method, much easier and seems to be less stressful on the fish, i even took a picture



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Thank you again to everyone for all the help

 

[waterdrop]

The autotrophic bacteria that process the ammonia into nitrite(NO2) are variants of Nitrosomonas. We often call them the A-Bacs. All that nitrite you're getting at least means you've got plenty of A-Bacs that have already developed! Hang in there, its going to be a lot of water!

~~waterdrop~~