My Fishless Cycle And Flourish Excel

FishForums.net Pet of the Month
🐶 POTM Poll is Open! 🦎 Click here to Vote! 🐰

Vancar

New Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2010
Messages
46
Reaction score
0
I decided to set my plants up while waiting for the cycle to start, and the guy in the shop recommended I use Flourish excel to help the plants.

So yesterday after planting the plants I added the flourish and again today I added some more as per the packaging direction. I then proceeded to do the ammonia check.

My readings are as follows:

0.5ppm ammonia
5+ppm nitrite might be off the scale actually as it was turning as i capped the bottle
80 -160ppm nitrate.

Has the florish effected my reading or has my cycle started?
 
cycle has started :good:

it might make nitrate go up (not sure of the exact composition of that product but some ferts contain nitrate) but I can't see how it would make the ammonia go down. so good news, cycle looks like it's underway.
 
day 2 of tests

1-2ppm ammonia :(
5+ppm nitrite
80-160ppm nitrate
 
If anything it would make the ammonia go up I often read 0.5 ammonia after I dose my ferts. (Its not actual ammonia but the way it breaks down shows up on test)
 
Ferts contain Ammonium - the test kits can't tell the differnce between ammonium and ammonia; this is why you'll get funny readings after dosing. They will also usually have Nitrates in them so will make that reading soar.

I'd advise not adding ferts while cycling as you want to have a really good idea what your water chemistry is doing without adding other factors. Your plants won't suffer in the meanwhile - they'll be feeding off the ammonia and nitrates present in your water - keep you light cycle quite low - say 4 - 5 hours a day while you cycle.

What plants have you got in there- what lights and what size tank - filter - flow rate etc.
 
Excel contains polycycloglutaracetal, if I remember correctly. It is a polymerized isomer of gluteraldehyde, and acts as a source of carbon for your plants. It contains no ammonia or nitrates.

Cycling a planted tank. Sigh! :-(

Dave.
 
Dave, I was told on these forums by several sources that I will need to cycle my tank if my tank is not heavily planted, which my tank is not

Quoted from the Floursih website:



Flourish Excel


Product Description

Flourish Excel™ is a source of bioavailable organic carbon. All plants require a source of carbon. This is typically obtained from CO2, but, may also be derived from simple organic compounds (such as photosynthetic intermediates). The use of either CO2 injection or Flourish Excel™ does not necessarily negate the use of the other. Because the processes of producing photosynthetic intermediates and building onto them occur simultaneously, one can derive a substantial benefit with the use of Flourish Excel™ either alone or in conjunction with CO2 . The combination is particularly ideal for situations when continuing to add CO2 could result in dangerously low pH levels. Flourish Excel™ also has iron reducing properties which promote the ferrous state of iron (Fe+2), which is more easily utilized by plants than ferric iron (Fe+3).


Why It's Different

The reason plants need CO2 is to produce longer chain carbon compounds also known as photosynthetic intermediates. Photosynthetic intermediates includes compounds such as ribulose 1,5-bisphosphate, and 2-carboxy-3-keto-D-arabinitol 1,5 bisphosphate. Although the names are complicated, the structures are quite simple (5 carbon chains). Flourish Excel™ does not contain these specific compounds per se, but one that is quite similar. By dosing with Flourish Excel™ you bypass the involvement of CO2 and introduce the already finished, structurally similar compounds. It is in its structural similarity that Flourish Excel™ is able to be utilized in the carbon chain building process of photosynthesis. Simple chemical or enzymatic steps can easily convert it to any one to any one of the above named compounds (or a variety of others).

I think I will continue cycling with the Flourish to see the out come. I've started so I will finish :)

Edit: Just read on http://www.aquatics-online.co.uk/acatalog/Seachem.html that flourish excel does not contain nitrates. But this is the internet so who knows :)
 
What plants have you got in there- what lights and what size tank - filter - flow rate etc.


tank 80x30x40 clear seal
filter Eheim 2012 pick up
Jager heaterstat 100w,
Light 24" 10000k 20w t8 light
7.5kg aqua grit


Will post a picture when I get home from work, as I don't have a clue about there names. :)
 
got home tonight and ammonia is still at 4ppm :( didn't bother doing other test.

and for Katch as I don't know the plants names here is a picture

dscf0637t.jpg
 
Dave, I was told on these forums by several sources that I will need to cycle my tank if my tank is not heavily planted, which my tank is not

Vancar, I have absolutely no idea why these people find it hard to grasp the concept of fishless cycle with no lights, and plant at the end of the cycle.

I know of nobody at the top of the planted tank side of things that recommends cycling tanks with ammonia that have plants present. Takashi Amano, Tom Barr, Clive or Darryl at UKAPS, the top scapers from APC or ASW. I honestly can`t think of anyone.

Goodbye TFF, and thanks for all that you taught me in the early days. :good:

Dave.
 
Yes, certainly agree with that statement by Dave. I too have never seen any of them promote fishless cycling and plants in combination and I do go over and read a number of planted forums, although probably to a much more limited degree than Dave.

Personally, I did a bare glass tank fishless cycle myself and do feel that is the best way. Periodically I do mention this here in the freshwater beginners section but I grow lax at this after a while because it often feels like the vast majority of newcomers either have families or are young and impatient themselves. What difference does that make? I guess I get the sense that having a few plants, even if they get covered with algae and have to be thrown out at the end of the cycle is a way for these beginners to counteract the social stigma they feel from the family about having no fish in the tank for a month or two - that aspect can be really difficult. At times I've tried to write up all that for beginners but its a lot of writing and I end up getting lazy most of the time.

I can't speak for MW but do feel she is basically in the same place as me with this, just feeling that a stark fishless cycle up front to get the bacteria in good shape really can't hurt anything that follows and is an obvious safety factor for the fish (thinking especially from the beginners standpoint, where mistakes might easily be made.) After those robust colonies are present then you can go any direction you want - including a great planted setup. The planted setup will do a lot of work that the bacteria were doing and the colony sizes will drop down, but who cares, at least the colonies are already there and robust, to serve as a good backup for any beginner plant-raising mistakes.

Well, I know the danger is always there that we'll end up having to bop over to UKAPS to get Dave's advice but I hope he'll still check in on us now and then because its been really valuable for TFF. :sad:

~~waterdrop~~
 

Most reactions

trending

Members online

Back
Top