My First Fishless Cycle....

[mattlee]

this is my first fishless cycle as my first tank was fish in and all my other tanks have been seeded in the past and i just fancied logging it.
i have managed to put some media from healthy tanks along the way but not a huge amount in the hope it will shorten the cycle period....
here are my results so far -
it takes 9ml of ammonia to get the test result of 4ppm in the tank and the amount of ammonia added when required was enough to raise the level back to 4ppm.
tank temp 29oC
day 1

added 9ml of ammonia
ammonia=4

day 2

ammonia=4
nitrate=10

day 3

ammonia=4
nitrate=10

day4

ammonia=4
nitrate=10

added mature sponge to canister

day 5

ammonia=4
nitrate=10

day 6

ammonia=4
nitrite=0.25
nitrate=10

day 7

ammonia=1
nitrite=0.50
nitrate=10

added 7ml of ammonia

day 8

ammonia=1
nitrite=1
nitrate=20

added 7ml of ammonia

day 9

ammonia=0.5
nitrite=5
nitrate=20-40

added mature noodles from healthy tank
added 7ml of ammonia

day 10

ammonia=0
nitrite=5
nitrate=20-40

added 9ml of ammonia

day 11

now the ammonia was clearing to 0 within 12 hours so 2 doses of 9ml were added each day

added 9ml of ammonia (am)

ammonia=0
nitrite=5
nitrate=20-40

added 9ml of ammonia (pm)

day 12

added 9ml of ammonia (am)

ammonia=0
nitrite=5
nitrate=20-40

added 9ml of ammonia

day 13

added 9ml of ammonia (am)

ammonia=1
nitrite=5+
nitrate=10

added 7ml of ammonia (pm)

day 14

ammonia=4
nitrite=5+
nitrate=10
pH=6

2 X 40% water changes got a pH of 7.8 again due to a pH crash causing the cycle to pause......

after the water changes the results were
ammonia=1
nitrite=5
nitrate=10

added 7ml of ammonia

12 hours later
ammonia=0.5
nitrite=5
nitrate=20
pH=7.6

day 15

added 7ml of ammonia (am)

ammonia=0
nitrite=5
nitrate=20
pH=7.4

added 7ml of ammonia (pm)

day 16

added 7ml of ammonia (am)

ammonia=0
nitrite=5
nitrate=20
pH=7.4

day 17

ammonia=0
nitrite=5
nitrate=20
pH=8.4

added 4ml of ammonia (1730)

day 18

ammonia=0
nitrite=0
nitrate=40
pH=6.6

added 4ml of ammonia (1730)

day 19

ammonia=0.25
nitrite=0.25
nitrete=40
pH=6.0

as the pH has crashed again stalling the cycle i have done a 50% water change to get the pH back up into the alkaline pH

added 4ml of ammonia (1730)

day 20

ammonia=0
nitrite=0
nitrate=20
pH=7.6

added 4ml of ammonia (1730)

day 21

ammonia=0
nitrite=0
nitrate=40
pH=7.6

added 4ml of ammonia (1730)

day 22

ammonia=0
nitrite=0
nitrate=40
pH=7.6

added 4ml of ammonia (1730)

day 23

ammonia=0
nitrite=0
nitrate=40
pH=7.6

added 4ml of ammonia (1730)

day 24

ammonia=0
nitrite=0
nitrate=40
pH=7.4

added 4ml of ammonia (1730)

 

[waterdrop]

Hi Mattlee, nice to see an old-timer like you logging one so we get another case to watch! Note that we've found that if you add ammonia more than once in a 24 hour period (eg. at 12 hour points like you appear to be doing) it tends to build up too much nitrite and nitrate too fast which then inhibits N-Bac growth at an earlier point in the process. There also is some evidence from the waste-water treatment world that "pulsing" the ammonia dose to autotrophs can help with their development cycle.

Thus, we let the ammonia concentration just sit at zero for 12 hours or more sometimes but we always re-dose it at the same 24 hour mark if it has reached true zero ppm within the previous 24 hours. Its mostly just a tweek to the process.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[mattlee]

Hi Mattlee, nice to see an old-timer like you logging one so we get another case to watch! Note that we've found that if you add ammonia more than once in a 24 hour period (eg. at 12 hour points like you appear to be doing) it tends to build up too much nitrite and nitrate too fast which then inhibits N-Bac growth at an earlier point in the process. There also is some evidence from the waste-water treatment world that "pulsing" the ammonia dose to autotrophs can help with their development cycle.

Thus, we let the ammonia concentration just sit at zero for 12 hours or more sometimes but we always re-dose it at the same 24 hour mark if it has reached true zero ppm within the previous 24 hours. Its mostly just a tweek to the process.

~~waterdrop~~

ok thanks for that WD.

i always thought that by adding the ammonia 2 x per day that it would keep the bacteria alive. at the minute ammonia levels are dropping from 4ppm down to 0ppm in about 10 hours. so from what you said i should leave the second dose of ammonia altogether and just dose 1 x per day. the reason i was adding 2 lots was because i didnt want the bacteria i had built up to start to decrease as it would be at 0ppm for 12-14 hours ish....
also i was going to start reducing the ammonia from 4ppm down to 3ppm or maybe even 2ppm while the nitrite levels sort themselves out, is this advisable?

as stated this is my first fishless cycle in all the time i have kept fish and am still learning from it so any tips or advice is very welcome

 

[waterdrop]

Its quite a concious thing, letting them be exposed to a zero ppm period. We hope that this "pulsing" of the dose will actually stimulate a faster growth pattern than a more constant dose. Your other plan falls right in line with our thoughts, that reducing the dose amount during the second phase (the nitrite spike phase) is an additional idea that should be used (drop it to 2 or 3ppm during the period.) Like the pulsing, it too helps to lower the overall amount of nitrogen "product" (the nitrite and nitrate) accumulating as the days roll on. Both are known to be inhibitory to N-Bac growth, especially nitrate. (Incidently, this is why you can get a kind of "double-whammy" at the very end of a fishless cycle - its because of getting very high nitrates, inhibiting the N-Bacs and also because the high nitrate also contains more nitric acid by percentage and can often drive the pH down and stall the bacteria.)

 

[mattlee]

ok thanks WD

so would it be a good idea to do a water change to cut down any nitrates and reduce the nitrite levels?

ill start adding enough to put the ammonia levels up to about 2-3 from now on

 

[mattlee]

ok thanks WD

so would it be a good idea to do a water change to cut down any nitrates and reduce the nitrite levels?

ill start adding enough to put the ammonia levels up to about 2-3 from now on

the pH has shot the other way now and has a reading of 8.4 ish, the test was purple but wasnt a match on the card

 

[waterdrop]

Your nitrate is not all that high yet, still at 20, your pH is high and you're still in the nitrite spike, so I'd not disturb it yet with water changes. I'd wait until the third phase when nitrite drops, nitrate suddenly goes upward more sharply and pH may be being pushed downward. That's the perfect time to start doing a few weekend water changes (not all weekends) with a refresh of the ammonia afterward.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[mattlee]

Your nitrate is not all that high yet, still at 20, your pH is high and you're still in the nitrite spike, so I'd not disturb it yet with water changes. I'd wait until the third phase when nitrite drops, nitrate suddenly goes upward more sharply and pH may be being pushed downward. That's the perfect time to start doing a few weekend water changes (not all weekends) with a refresh of the ammonia afterward.

~~waterdrop~~

thanks again WD

 

[mattlee]

well my nitrites are reading 0 today but the pH has crashed down to 6.6

should i still leave it as it is until the nitrates build up to do a water change?

just to add this media that is cycling will be removed when cycled and put in another filter on another tank that i currently have set up and running ready for the cycled filter and fish so high nitrates arent an issue as the tank will be totally drained, refilled and will be used as a grow out tank for a few of my smaller fish using an already cycled filter.....

 

[mattlee]

today the pH has crashed even further reading 6.0 on the API test...... this has again stalled the cycle as the ammonia and nitrite both read 0.25 i have done a 50% water change to get the pH back up to alkaline ill retest later once its all mixed and settled.

 

[mattlee]

after the water change yesterday the bacteria soon got back to work and was able to keep the ammonia and nitrite down at 0 again the nitrates look like they have reduced but this is due to the water change yesterday.

back on track with double 0's

 

[mattlee]

today the pH is stable and im still getting double zeros. hopefully i can add my stock at the weekend

 

[mattlee]

still have a stable pH and double zeros

 

[anon02]

Aren`t you testing at 12 hours Matt ?

 

[mattlee]

Aren`t you testing at 12 hours Matt ?

yes ive been testing at 12 hours and the results are ammonia=0 nitrite=0 so i havent put them up to help confusion. if there is any difference in the test then i have added my explanation and the results in the first page.

todays results are the same. still getting double zeros and the pH hasnt moved.