My Black Moor

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Just take the black moor back keep the neons and add a few guppies. Well you shouldn't have even added the neons admiting that you havnt cycled. Discuslova was totaly right so simbob stop causing trouble. My black moor was is a 24"x12x12 and that was even to small (its about a 10 gallon right?) they are round and quite big fish. She/he is now in a 30"x18"x18" with a fluval external filter and its about 7" and very 'pot bellyed'. Unless your planning to upgrade then take it back to the shop.

cold water fish + warm water fish + same tank = A dead fish

I had some minnows in with mine and he botherd them all day so i put them in the 24" tank.
 
moreece died last night he died then got stuck in a cavatie in the filter . :( very very sad :no: but in going to get a bristle nose and cory :yay:

moreece is dead




RIP moreece
 
maybe thers a reason why moreece died? due to your ignorance.
dont add 1 cory, do some research and you would see they need to be in grops of 3 minimum, but bigger the better.
personally i would try to cycle your tank first, then add some nice hardy fish. not livebeares as these will have fry for you to deal with, but maybe 4-5 cories, preferably the dwarf kind, and 1 centrepiece fish such as a betta, or gouramie,
but please before buying anyfish, do some research and ask as many questions on this forum as you need to.
 
maybe thers a reason why moreece died? due to your ignorance.
dont add 1 cory, do some research and you would see they need to be in grops of 3 minimum, but bigger the better.
personally i would try to cycle your tank first, then add some nice hardy fish. not livebeares as these will have fry for you to deal with, but maybe 4-5 cories, preferably the dwarf kind, and 1 centrepiece fish such as a betta, or gouramie,
but please before buying anyfish, do some research and ask as many questions on this forum as you need to.

That was rude....
Moreece compared to the common public did a very nice job! There could be MANY reasons why the goldfish died. CONSTRUCTIVE CRITISISM would help better than calling him/her ignorant. Just because one aquarist does something doesn't mean you should jump on them and say "You are doing everything wrong", "you are ignorant", "you screwed up". With time comes experiance. Don't tell me when you kept your first fish you did everything perfect. Yes, YOU made mistakes too.

Moreece, now that you have tropicals I would keep your tank in the tropical theme. If you would like to have another goldfish you can always get another tank, or return your tropicals and get a goldfish. You have a very nice tank! If you have any questions before going to the pet store be sure to ask, and the community will do there best to give you some good advise.

Have a nice one :)
 
I'm sorry for your loss. :(
As other people have said, do plenty of research before buying anymore fish. I wouldn't get a Pleco just yet as they prefer to be kept in a more mature tank. Cories I believe, need the same but it's worth double checking on that.
 
The filter is a good place for bacteria to grow, but it seems more beneficial for filtering the water not growing clonies of bacteria. The gravel is more beneficial, and if you have a dirty filter not cleaning the water there is no point in leaving it there. Stress zyme helps aid in the growth of the bacteria. A new filter allows for the bacteria left the the filter a place to grow, and they tend to grow exponentially. And my fish always were swimming around and were very happy till I was unable to change the filter and do the water changes. They also seemed to grow quite large when I was there.


Stress Zyme doesn't do anything, I have heard how it doesn't have the right bacteria. Moreece, look at this as a lesson learned and turn it into something positive, you can get something more suited for the tank now.
 
moreece died last night he died then got stuck in a cavatie in the filter . :( very very sad :no: but in going to get a bristle nose and cory :yay:

moreece is dead




RIP moreece


Ok seriously. Stop. Right now. Do not even THINK of adding any more fish right now. You're a beginner (not a bad thing, everyone is at some point), but youre thinking of making some big mistakes. Let those Neons settle in for a good 3 weeks to a month. They will most likely not survive the cycle. Just stop adding fish for the moment and we'll help you out with a good stocking list of compatible fish that interest you.

Hope I didn't come across too harsh but you should really slow it down a lot and let everyone here help you out.
 
Ok seriously. Stop. Right now. Do not even THINK of adding any more fish right now. You're a beginner (not a bad thing, everyone is at some point), but youre thinking of making some big mistakes. Let those Neons settle in for a good 3 weeks to a month. They will most likely not survive the cycle. Just stop adding fish for the moment and we'll help you out with a good stocking list of compatible fish that interest you.

Hope I didn't come across too harsh but you should really slow it down a lot and let everyone here help you out.

I agree. :good: Set the heater to about 78 and just let the neons settle in for a month.
 
The filter is a good place for bacteria to grow, but it seems more beneficial for filtering the water not growing clonies of bacteria. The gravel is more beneficial, and if you have a dirty filter not cleaning the water there is no point in leaving it there. Stress zyme helps aid in the growth of the bacteria. A new filter allows for the bacteria left the the filter a place to grow, and they tend to grow exponentially. And my fish always were swimming around and were very happy till I was unable to change the filter and do the water changes. They also seemed to grow quite large when I was there.
The filter is the main colonizing location for the bacteria, not the gravel like you said. The only reason for mechanical filtration is to remove debirs and other unsightlys from your tank. If your filter pad is dirty you simply wash it in tank water and put it back in thus saving the bacteria. The only product I know of that provides and aids bacteria is Bio-spira since it is refrigerated. Also, everytime you replaced your filter, they dont grow exponteially so your tank had to slowy go through a cycle again to build up a sufficient amount of bacteria. I would hope your fish were swimming around as this is what they do but is no way a sign of their "happiness." Better to look at how long they lived compared to life expectancy. I understand you are trying to help and add your two cents but most of what you have said is inaccurate, I am in no way trying to be rude. Hopefully we can continue to discuss this in a civilized manner and come to a common consensus.

Drew

Edit-After reading my thread just thought I should add you are correct in that bacteria exist in the gravel, just a small amount compared to the filter though.
 
Hi everyone im not going to put any more fish in for yonks like you said . time i will put a fish in is if i get a million $ fish lol .



RIP moreece
 
Hi everyone im not going to put any more fish in for yonks like you said . time i will put a fish in is if i get a million $ fish lol .



RIP moreece

Good to know, I always say some male guppies :rolleyes: but they are colourful and nice little fish. Just dont get an Ocsar :good:
 
The filter is a good place for bacteria to grow, but it seems more beneficial for filtering the water not growing clonies of bacteria. The gravel is more beneficial, and if you have a dirty filter not cleaning the water there is no point in leaving it there. Stress zyme helps aid in the growth of the bacteria. A new filter allows for the bacteria left the the filter a place to grow, and they tend to grow exponentially. And my fish always were swimming around and were very happy till I was unable to change the filter and do the water changes. They also seemed to grow quite large when I was there.
The filter is the main colonizing location for the bacteria, not the gravel like you said. The only reason for mechanical filtration is to remove debirs and other unsightlys from your tank. If your filter pad is dirty you simply wash it in tank water and put it back in thus saving the bacteria. The only product I know of that provides and aids bacteria is Bio-spira since it is refrigerated. Also, everytime you replaced your filter, they dont grow exponteially so your tank had to slowy go through a cycle again to build up a sufficient amount of bacteria. I would hope your fish were swimming around as this is what they do but is no way a sign of their "happiness." Better to look at how long they lived compared to life expectancy. I understand you are trying to help and add your two cents but most of what you have said is inaccurate, I am in no way trying to be rude. Hopefully we can continue to discuss this in a civilized manner and come to a common consensus.

Drew

Edit-After reading my thread just thought I should add you are correct in that bacteria exist in the gravel, just a small amount compared to the filter though.


First I apologize if I seem like I was rude in any way, that is not my goal. I, like you, would like a civilized forum in which people can feel free to discuss fish topics. I have not really done any research on stress zyme, but I would like to know where you received information on it not helping. As for my research, most of my research suggestions that in the perfect environment, the bacteria grow exponentially. Obviously there is no perfect environment. However, the tank seems to be a great place for bacteria to grow and it maybe more log rhythmically, where in the initial regrowth phase there would be a lag phase, but then the growth would be exponentially till it hit a stationary phase. Also, most of the places I have read say bacteria grow better under the gravel where it is undisturbed and can use the detritus for energy. As for washing your filter in the tank and placing it back in, I have never heard of someone doing this. It seems cost effective, but for me I have a basic hang on the back filter. To my knowledge that carbon in the pad does not last that long, and I change them monthly in my current fish tank. I notice a huge change in the fish when I keep the filters in there too long. Maybe you can show me where you read about this method.
 
Although I really can't go deep into it, I have heard it doesn't have the right nitrifiying bacteria, you may want to ask someone else if you would like them to go more into depth for you. Also, I recommend keeping the filter pad and just changing the activated carbon. If you don't want to do that, you should have two different pieces of filter media in the filter, this way you can rotate changing them. I also heard keeping a filter pad in the substrate for ten days should help bacteria colonize on it. Then, once you change the old one, you can use the other inside the tank.
 
The filter is a good place for bacteria to grow, but it seems more beneficial for filtering the water not growing clonies of bacteria. The gravel is more beneficial, and if you have a dirty filter not cleaning the water there is no point in leaving it there. Stress zyme helps aid in the growth of the bacteria. A new filter allows for the bacteria left the the filter a place to grow, and they tend to grow exponentially. And my fish always were swimming around and were very happy till I was unable to change the filter and do the water changes. They also seemed to grow quite large when I was there.
The filter is the main colonizing location for the bacteria, not the gravel like you said. The only reason for mechanical filtration is to remove debirs and other unsightlys from your tank. If your filter pad is dirty you simply wash it in tank water and put it back in thus saving the bacteria. The only product I know of that provides and aids bacteria is Bio-spira since it is refrigerated. Also, everytime you replaced your filter, they dont grow exponteially so your tank had to slowy go through a cycle again to build up a sufficient amount of bacteria. I would hope your fish were swimming around as this is what they do but is no way a sign of their "happiness." Better to look at how long they lived compared to life expectancy. I understand you are trying to help and add your two cents but most of what you have said is inaccurate, I am in no way trying to be rude. Hopefully we can continue to discuss this in a civilized manner and come to a common consensus.

Drew

Edit-After reading my thread just thought I should add you are correct in that bacteria exist in the gravel, just a small amount compared to the filter though.


First I apologize if I seem like I was rude in any way, that is not my goal. I, like you, would like a civilized forum in which people can feel free to discuss fish topics. I have not really done any research on stress zyme, but I would like to know where you received information on it not helping. As for my research, most of my research suggestions that in the perfect environment, the bacteria grow exponentially. Obviously there is no perfect environment. However, the tank seems to be a great place for bacteria to grow and it maybe more log rhythmically, where in the initial regrowth phase there would be a lag phase, but then the growth would be exponentially till it hit a stationary phase. Also, most of the places I have read say bacteria grow better under the gravel where it is undisturbed and can use the detritus for energy. As for washing your filter in the tank and placing it back in, I have never heard of someone doing this. It seems cost effective, but for me I have a basic hang on the back filter. To my knowledge that carbon in the pad does not last that long, and I change them monthly in my current fish tank. I notice a huge change in the fish when I keep the filters in there too long. Maybe you can show me where you read about this method.


Although I really can't go deep into it, I have heard it doesn't have the right nitrifiying bacteria, you may want to ask someone else if you would like them to go more into depth for you. Also, I recommend keeping the filter pad and just changing the activated carbon. If you don't want to do that, you should have two different pieces of filter media in the filter, this way you can rotate changing them. I also heard keeping a filter pad in the substrate for ten days should help bacteria colonize on it. Then, once you change the old one, you can use the other inside the tank.

Most of the research that I have done say that bacteria grows in the filter and the gravel. Most research I find also says to change the filter monthly such as Aquarium Pharmaceuticals. The filter is good for mechanical filtration of large debris, but having a dirty one will only push water around the filter and not through the filter. So IMO I believe it is better to change the filter. Also, most research I read suggests to place gravel in nylon or a piece of cheese cloth to start up a new tank and have it cycle faster, or they can just place some old with the new if they don't mind mixing it. The fact is that the gravel has a much larger surface ratio then the filter, and for most heterotrophic bacteria, which may be "slow" if taking 15-24 hours to double in population is slow, can use most of the food and fish poop to eat and break down into ammonia. To my knowledge stress zyme contains heterotrophic gram positive Bacillus in a dormant stage giving it a longer shelf life. This may be the "wrong" bacteria for converting ammonia to nitrite, but to break down the food and fish poop you NEED bacillus. So it is the right bacteria. You would need almost a million more bacteria of atrophic nitrifiers to convert the poop to ammonia. Maybe you mean incomplete discuslova? However, you can buy other products to add bacteria from the family Nitrobacteracea to the tank. However, these bacteria also can double within 15 mins to an hour in the proper growing conditions. Assuming there are Bacillus in the gravel, and adding more with stress zyme or another related product would increase the food supply for the nitrifiers and would flourish. In fact if you were to nitrifiers were to take a full hour to replicate and you only had 1 in your tank it would only take 5 hours to get 4,271,406,736 bacteria. However, given the bacillus producing a decent amount of ammonia for the nitrifiers it would flourish. Is there really a need to add nitrifiers to an established aquarium? It would seem inappropriate even somewhat wasteful, but not harmful. So, I have no idea what you mean by inaccurate information it appears most of what I have stated is correct. Stress zyme is good because it has a shelf life of 3 years, being refrigerated does not mean the product will last forever, it may only have a shelf life of 6 months before the bacteria will begin to go into proteolysis and be missing critical proteins and DNA to replicate. Meaning fridge or not fridge after six months the bacteria is dying. As for my fish swimming around, I know that is what they do, but I notice a big difference when I neglect the tank and do not change the filter and water because they seem sluggish and do not swim as much as they should.
 

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