Lowering Ph Naturally

[gale]

Is tetra Blackwater extract any good? I don't know if indian almond leaf is related to regular almond but I'm avoiding it just in case (due to allergies) . I have pretty high ph water (our pool, which only has some new tap water in it, is up to 8.2 which means my actual ph of 100% new water is going to be higher) so I thought i should try it. I don't have any fish yet. Will be doing a fishless cycle soon (whenever we get a chance to get our sand washed and tanks rinsed and filled). 
 
Another option is natural driftwood? 

 

[NickAu]

The short answer is no, There is no way to naturally lower the PH by much.
 
The only safe reliable solution is to use reverse osmosis water.
 
What is the PH of your tap water?

 

[cowgirluntamed]

I believe it is GH that also plays a major role in buffering the water. The higher it is, the more "stable" the ph will be, meaning anything you do(minus reverse osmosis to dilute), won't do anything at all. I have a ph of 8.2 out of the tap myself with a higher gh and kh. I've had driftwood in two tanks and it hasn't touched either. I have some Indian almond leaves but haven't tried them. You an also use maple,oak, and beech leaves(as well as some others I think) as long as there aren't any pesticides. Though I'm not sure if they will provide the same benefit as the Indian almond leaves or not when it comes to antiseptic type properties.

 

[gale]

I haven't tested the straight tap water yet. But if my 8300 gallon pool, which had a low ph upon opening (due to using a ph reducer over the years) went from about 7.5 to 8.2 just from adding a few hundred gallons of tap water, I'm sure it's well above 8.2. I have no access to RO water. Where would you buy something like that? The only water I can buy at a store is distilled, spring or city water that's been through a filter (doesn't specify RO-it just says drinking water). 

 

[StevenF]

 
 
I haven't tested the straight tap water yet. But if my 8300 gallon pool, which had a low ph upon opening (due to using a ph reducer over the years) went from about 7.5 to 8.2 just from adding a few hundred gallons of tap water, I'm sure it's well above 8.2

Don't assume your pool is reflective of the PH of your tap water.  Water evaporates from the pool and that concentrates the minerals increasing PH.  Also chemicals added to the pool will also affect PH.  So you tap PH may be similar or significantly different.  Don't guess measure it.  
 
High PH is mainly caused by the elements lithium, potassium, sodium, calcium, magnesium strontium, and a couple of others.  These are all metals.  The only way to eliminate their effect on PH is to remove them.  Also note Ammonia and some organic chemicals can also increase PH but in most cases bacteria in the aquarium consume these naturally.
 
The hardness of your water may also limit your choice of fish you can stock in the aquarium.  If your water is very hard it might be better to only add hard water fish to the aquarium and in that case a high PH might be OK.  
 

 
 
I have no access to RO water. Where would you buy something like that? The only water I can buy at a store is distilled

 
Distilled water is equivalent to RO water.  Distilled water is evaporated on one container and then condensed in a second .  All the minerals stay in the first container while pure water collects in the second.  RO water is water that passes through a special filter that doesn't allow minerals to pass.  RO water might be labeled as distilled.  Some fish stores will also sell it.
 
Note if you use RO or distilled water and want live plants in the aquarium, you will have to fertilize the water.  RO and Distilled water doesn't have enough minerals the plants need to grow.
 
You can buy RO filters that fit under the kitchen sink.  They can produce enough water in a week to completely fill a 30 gallon tank and maybe even a 40 gallon.  Weekly water changes in the aquarium will only need half that amount per week.
 
However that said you need to determine the hardness of your water (GH) GH tests are available at aquarium stores.  However your utility might post water quality test reports on line.  These reports should list PH, GH, KH and a lot of other information that would help you plan this out.

 

[gale]

We have a well so I'll definitely have to test it. Hopefully I can do that tomorrow. I don't feel like going outside to get a sample right now.

 

[kniesh]

Try adding a few red lotus plants to the tank if possible, these will help lower it slightly too

 

[Byron]

As Steven noted, it is essential to determine the GH (general hardness) and KH (carbonate hardness or Alkalinity) of the source water.  In addition to the GH being the mineral content, the KH "buffers" pH, preventing any fluctuations, and the higher the KH the stronger the buffering, which is why the pH will remain regardless of any attempts to lower it by wood, plants, chemicals unless you first dilute (lower) the GH and KH.
 
However, it is also possible that the GH and KH might be on the low side, yet the pH is high.  No point in getting into all this chemistry until we know the GH and KH value of your source water (well water here).
 
Whatever the numbers, you want to avoid fluctuating water parameters as these can be very detrimental to fish.
 
Byron.

 

[gale]

well you were right. All that worrying for nothing. lol. This is from our outside tap and sat for about an hour, maybe 2, before I got around to testing it. 
 
I have hardness tests with my pool kit I think. I'll test those in a bit. 

 

[Byron]

To be certain, I would test the tap water again; you need to ensure the CO2 is out-gassed or the result may be inaccurate.  Allowing a glass of water to sit 24 hours is one way, or you can very briskly agitate the water for a few minutes (in a closed jar for instance).  It might be higher, or it might not, depending upon any CO2 in the water.  If the new result is close to the low 7's, you are OK for the Betta.
 
This tap is presumably the one from which you obtain the water for the fish aquarium.
 
Byron.

 

[gale]

We have two outdoor taps and both come from the same source. Any water we use will sit in the house for at least a few days before adding to the tank because of the temperature so I'll do another test with 24 hour old water. 
 
eta: in the winter the water for changes will have to come through the kitchen tap. I can bypass the water softener though. 

 

[gale]

My pool kit only tests calcium hardness. So I guess I need to buy yet another test to check GH and KH. Luckily it's cheap. 

We were going to at least rinse the sand today using the outside tap. Should I wait until I can test the kh and gh or is it okay to go ahead and do it? I obviously wouldn't be able to get every bit of rinsewater out of the sand. 

 

[Byron]

My pool kit only tests calcium hardness. So I guess I need to buy yet another test to check GH and KH. Luckily it's cheap. 

We were going to at least rinse the sand today using the outside tap. Should I wait until I can test the kh and gh or is it okay to go ahead and do it? I obviously wouldn't be able to get every bit of rinsewater out of the sand. 

 
I would not worry about rinsing sand with the water, whatever the GH.  It is only if you fill the aquarium, then the water will have the GH and KH of the source water and this does not dissipate out or change much generally speaking.
 
You are right not to use water that has passed through a softener for fish.  This can be much worse because many of the home softeners use sodium salts to lower mineral salts, and sodium chloride (common salt) is harmful to freshwater fish in varying degrees.  Soft water fish (like your Betta) are more at risk than fish from naturally harder waters, but salt is still not something advisable long-term for any freshwater fish.
 
If you have a reliable fish store nearby, you might take a sample of tap water (from the outside tap obviously) and ask them to test the GH and KH.  Make sure you get the numbers, and their unit of measurement.  This will give us what we need to work out the pH over time, though as I said previously, if the pH turns out to be in the low 7's, you won't need to worry.  It is still worth knowing all this data though, just in case, and if you should want to expand your selection of fish.
 
Byron.

 

[gale]

The nearest aquarium shop is an hour away. I'll have the gh/kh test kit on Wednesday so in the meantime we can rinse the tanks and sand. A few years ago we had a walmart veiltail betta that lived about 2-3 yrs (even survived being boarded at the vet when we were on vacation) and we used a combo of soft and unsoft water for him. We also had a regular 20 long tank with a variety of fish in it and a regular 10 gallon that used the same combo. In our old house the cold tap in the kitchen was unsoft and I would get the temp just right (thus a mix of both hot and cold) and use that to fill tanks and for water changes. But even so I might as well do it as safely as possible this time. Our current house is 100% soft water. 
 
Our outside (unsoft) water turns orange after a few hours. Will the Novaqua/Amquel help control that? 

 

[Byron]

Our outside (unsoft) water turns orange after a few hours. Will the Novaqua/Amquel help control that?
 

 
If you mean the water itself turns orange, I would assume that is due to minerals or something in the water.  Are you able to safely drink the water, or is it somehow filtered/purified (aside from the softener)?