Low Tech 320L - How Do I Go About It?

[ZoddyZod]

Morning all,

I've got a thread going in the SA/CA cichlids section about a new 320L tank which I'm thinking of homing 6 angels in as the 'centerpiece'.

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/368583-the-slow-burner/

I'd like to know how I could plant this tank without a massive bill for ferts and liquid carbon. What would I need to invest in to make this a viable low-tech planted set-up?

 

[BigTom]

Cheapest way would be to go very low tech, with a nice lean garden compost capped with sand. Will still allow you to grow all but the most demanding of plants, and heavy root feeders like swords will love it. You could probably even manage a decent hairgrass lawn (buy large 9cm pots of Eleocharis acicularis from pond suppliers for around £2-3 each). Trick is to plant really heavily at the start to avoid the inevitable ammonia spike from using soil.

 

[ZoddyZod]

Cheapest way would be to go very low tech, with a nice lean garden compost capped with sand. Will still allow you to grow all but the most demanding of plants, and heavy root feeders like swords will love it. You could probably even manage a decent hairgrass lawn (buy large 9cm pots of Eleocharis acicularis from pond suppliers for around £2-3 each). Trick is to plant really heavily at the start to avoid the inevitable ammonia spike from using soil.

standard garden compost.....isn't that going to a bit of a hassle to maintain long term? Is it simpler and cleaner to use something like Aqua Soil or Flora Base? If I use any of these and go with heavy root feeders, can I get away with not dosing additional ferts?

As for the ammonia spike, if I'm running two established filters from the start, would this manage the spike? I currently have a 125L which will have it's stock trasferred over to the 320L. It wont be practical to run both tanks simultaneously (would need more filters for a start).

 

[coldcazzie]

no more than any other substrate zz. And its much cheaper. Compost and play sand together would cost you less than aquarium substrate.

Established filters and daily water changes for a few days (edit: when I say days, I mean a couple of weeks, then drop to every other day for a couple of weeks, then twice weekly, etc) would probably see you clear of any ammonia spike.

Plant food would be provided by fish waste and occasionally dosing trace ferts, otherwise you just leave them to it. There's a journal just been started in the journal section with a list of amazon plants from llj.

 

[BigTom]

The soil should continue providing nutrients for up to around a year, after which you'd expect the plants to all be very well established and able to survive off fish waste and maybe some minor supplemental dosing (its just a case of keeping an eye on the plants to see if they are lacking anything). If you stir the soil up then you will get a big mess, depends if you're likely to be rearranging the hardscape constantly, but minor adjustments shouldn't be a problem with a sand cap.

Of course you can use Aqua Soil or similar, but the difference in cost will be large for a tank that size. Bear in mind that AS will also cause ammonia spikes at the start, so whichever route you go down be prepared for the possibility of some hefty water changes at the beginning if you'll be putting livestock in immediately. AS and other substrates may also eventually become exhausted just like regular soil and therefore require some dosing down the road, they just have the advantage of being a bit easier to work with.

Shameless self-pimping, but have a look at my journal (in sig) to get an idea of how easy soil substrates can be.

 

[ZoddyZod]

Established filters and daily water changes for a few days (edit: when I say days, I mean a couple of weeks, then drop to every other day for a couple of weeks, then twice weekly, etc) would probably see you clear of any ammonia spike.

this fills me with dread . With a 2yr old and a 1 month old this will require time and effort in the evenings that is currently very hard to come by! Plus there's the obvious risk to the fish. Hmmmmmm.

Maybe dosing ferts (as I currently do) would be simpler (if more expensive) for me in the long run.

Even if I have to dose 12ml of TPN+ daily, that still means a 1L bottle will last 2.5months. Or maybe mxing my own dry ferts could be an option?

Shameless self-pimping, but have a look at my journal (in sig) to get an idea of how easy soil substrates can be.

I blocked sigs a while ago and have no idea how to get them back. Any chance you could post the link?

 

[BigTom]

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/350140-toms-bucket-o-mud/page__st__80

PS. you can get premixed or powdered ferts much cheaper than using TPN+ from somewhere like http/www.fluidsensoronline.com/

 

[ZoddyZod]

ahhhh, the bucket-o-mud thread. Saw it in the beginning and haven't read it lately......will get back up to speed.

 

[coldcazzie]

Yeah, I understand the reluctance to do large daily water changes, but you'd have to do that even if you got a proper plant substrate...

 

[ZoddyZod]

Yeah, I understand the reluctance to do large daily water changes, but you'd have to do that even if you got a proper plant substrate...

which makes me consider the liquid dosing instead. Decisions, decisions.

 

[KkAaNnEe]

The only other thing is, you really need to cap soil, an i mean cap it cap it. It can be a mess and with sand, its especially difficult, probably need a 1:3 ratio. If you dont wanna use soil, cat litter is another option.

Also you could just have any substrate and put root tabs in (preferably seachem as these last around 3 months)

Just be prepared to catch the plant bug i guess, you may end up dosing every now and then, but of your own choice lol

 

[ZoddyZod]

Also you could just have any substrate and put root tabs in (preferably seachem as these last around 3 months)

but then I'd need to replace them every 3 months then, right?

 

[ZoddyZod]

The soil should continue providing nutrients for up to around a year, after which you'd expect the plants to all be very well established and able to survive off fish waste and maybe some minor supplemental dosing (its just a case of keeping an eye on the plants to see if they are lacking anything).

ok, so if i did use a 'proper' planted substrate, I wouldn't need to rip it up every year and refresh it?

I often wondered how this problem was overcome.

 

[KkAaNnEe]

Right, yes, but less hassle than daily dosing etc, plus you wont be limited with substrate.

 

[BigTom]

The soil should continue providing nutrients for up to around a year, after which you'd expect the plants to all be very well established and able to survive off fish waste and maybe some minor supplemental dosing (its just a case of keeping an eye on the plants to see if they are lacking anything).

ok, so if i did use a 'proper' planted substrate, I wouldn't need to rip it up every year and refresh it?

I often wondered how this problem was overcome.

Lots of the 'posh' planting substrates have a high cation exchange capacity (CEC), which basically means they are good at holding nutrients. Excess nutrients from dosing, fish waste etc in the water column can then be reabsorbed into the substrate, effectively 'refreshing' them.

The CEC of a normal compost may not be as high (it will depend on the amount of clay and humus in the compost).

But that isn't to say you'll need to rip it up after a year if you use compost - even with slower plant growth in a low tech system, your tank should manage to get very lush before the soil is exhausted. Growth will eventually slow as nutrients run out, but low level/trace dosing and/or fish waste should be enough sustain the plants long term.

The soil in my bucket of mud is now 8 months old, and is still sustaining slow but steady growth of a huge plant biomass, despite the fact the tank is very lightly stocked and is fed little other than dead beech leaves.