Long Term 55G Community Plans For A Beginner

[N0body Of The Goat]

Over the last few days, I have been throwing all sorts of mixes into the utility at www.aqadvisor.com , trying to find a balance between relatively hardy fish and those that will need a mature cycled tank.

Having looked around my two LFSs, I thought it might be best to start a thread on my plans (which can and often do change by the hour), rather than posting in specific species forums.

Currently, I am thinking of investing in a Jewel Rio 240 tank and cabinet starter kit, which I hope to at least partly fishless cycle before adding the first fish (almost certainly Zebra Danios). I am thinking about a landscape that involves some driftwood (if indeed this is vital for a happy BN Plec) at one end, some sort of multi-cave formation at the other end, with a mix of small-tall live plants in the middle.

My tropical specialist LFS owner informed me that Southampton tap water has a pH of ~8.5, I believe it is moderately hard (old job involved recycling washing machines, often caked in limescale) and the LFS owner said if I am not planning to breed, all his fish are quite happy in de-chlorinated Southampton tap water.

Option 1 (in order of addition to tank)
------------------------------------
6 x Zebra Danio (Danio rerio)
10 x Harlequin Rasbora (Trigonostigma heteromorpha)
6 x Cherry Barb (Puntius titteya)
5 x Boesemans Rainbowfish (Melanotaenia boesemani)
6 x Dwarf Rainbowfish (Melanotaenia maccullochi)
1 x Bristlenose Pleco (Ancistrus sp.)
1 x Betta [Male] (Betta splendens)
6 x Marble Hatchet (Carnegiella strigata)
1 x Bolivian Ram (Mikrogeophagus altispinosus)
1 x Kribensis (Pelvicachromis pulcher)

The two immediate concerns with "Option 1" is that Boesmans temp range according to some sites can be as low as 24C, but not others, plus whether the Betta is a bad move (especially with Danios from what I've read in some places).

Any feedback is very welcome!

 

[OldMan47]

The only thing on your list that might have any trouble at 24C would be the rams. I have never kept rams but I understand they like their water warm. Many of the others have spent time in my tanks and I never run a tank above 24C except when I must. Some Betta splendens can become victims of more active fish so they may not work out. I have kept bettas in community tanks with no troubles in the past but my own experience cannot be considered gospel in that respect. Other people have had very different experiences with bettas because each betta has its own personality. You should be aware that aquadvisor is still in an early development stage and cannot be expected to contain enough information to give you all of the conflicts that can be generated in a tank stocking. There are many hundreds of different fish that are common in the hobby and each possible combination can never be anticipated by any software application. Some of the worst combinations are certain to have been anticipated and entered into the data though.

I would switch your first two fish because I find rasboras almost indestructible. You may want to consider whether or not you want so many one of a kind fish in the tank. I find it better to concentrate on groups of at least 4 or 5 of a kind to avoid a jumbled look to the tank occupants. Something else you may want to consider is that you have very few fish listed that will give an active look to the bottom portion of the tank. Plecos don't move around much and a single krib won't show much activity. Most of the other fish are middle or top dwellers. In a nice big tank like that, you might want to consider one of the hardier corydoras species in a group of 5 or more. They can be quite entertaining in groups and will add movement to the bottom of the tank.

 

[waterdrop]

Really good that you are getting in on the planning at an early stage and you've already got one of our best advisors helping up above me there. So I'll just add a comment/opinion that I'm struck that the fact that you would show concern about the local pH and hardness and the species you plan to get and yet in the same post also say that you plan to "at least partly fishless cycle before adding the first fish."

Ammonia and nitrite(NO2) in the water with fish, even in traces, is really a much bigger negative to fish than the more subtle problems of water changes, pH , hardness and other things you read about. One of the most fundamental lessons that can jump-start you as a beginer is to learn early that pristine water, filtered to zero ppm ammonia and zero ppm nitrite(NO2) by a fully functioning biofilter is at the core of acclimating fish to your new tank and then helping them be healthy on an ongoing basis.

The mish-mash of stories you hear about cycling can make it all sound like some choices that just need to be made but all things are not created equal and the add&wait fishless cycling intructions and day by day help on this beginner forum is one of the gems (along with good stocking plan help and good maintenance training) that this forum has to offer the beginner.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Gourami123]

the krib maybe a problem by bullying others
the betta is not the greatest choose as the ram will beat him up as well as the zebra danios

temperature should be right
ph is way to high for most of those species

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

The fishless cycling is something I've decided I want to follow through now, despite the LFS owner insisting that I could set up the tank; de-chlorinate the water; add some "magic" bacteria mix from a squeezy bottle (Safestart?); add a few hardy fish... in the space of a few hours! He really did confuse my opinion on this last week, as I hate the principal of animals in my care having undue stress inflicted on them due to my decisions. The owner was standing in front of me, arms crossed (very negative body language), poo-pooing most of what I have read on the internet over the last two weeks, for a re-kindled interest that his selection of fish gave me when my new postal round included his shop! Part of me wants to support my tropical LFS specialist, buying a Jewel Rio 240 and stock from him, but at the same time he is not coming across as someone who still has passion for his fish

Anyway... Back to "Option 1!"
The Betta might well be dropped, as much as I love the look of them, it does appear to be a nightmare fish to find suitable companions for.
The Dwarf Rainbows may go too, as the other LFS have now run out of stock and do not know when they may get more.
I like the long term idea of a Ram and a Krib, but at the same time, I hate the idea of just having a single specimen of each... Just in case by some miracle they breed and then become territorial.

The lack of active bottom-dwellers is difinately something to fix, perhaps a small school of Corys or Kuhli Loaches may be the ticket (although Kuhlis have now been sold at other LFS, plus I've read a few posts about Kuhlis getting into places they should not in the tank setup).
A couple or trio of Dwarf Honey Gourami might be the way forward to replace the dodgy Betta.

Rather than the traditional approach of a few species with larger groups, I'm aiming for as many different fish families I can put in and still "play nicely," a bit like grabbing the highlights from an F1 season... While trying to find a balance between hardy early fish and more exotic/sensitive species!

 

[waterdrop]

I like to support my local independent LFS's if at all possible, especially if they have nice selections of fish and/or plants, things that are especially nice to be able to get locally, but I don't include advice in it. I just smile and buy things (which I've already thoroughly researched.) I try to to compliment them on things that look good and that I like. I just accept that shopkeepers have long ago been forced into a different agenda than we as hobbyists have - they have things they need to do in order to feel their business will survive and we as hobbyists now have the powerful tool of forums to help us share information and know-how with each other. There is no longer the need for a shopkeeper to be the lone source of info like he/she was years ago (certainly was the case for me in the 60's!)

~~waterdrop~~

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

After seeing the Rio 240 and cabinet for ~£475 at my LFS plus delivery charge, I came across the same setup with freebies at Seapets online store today for £350 with free delivery!

I will see if my LFS will match the offer, otherwise I think I have found my setup at a cost that will save me the cost of the possible fish that will added to it over the next 12 months

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

Well, I popped into Tropi-quaria again today, towards the end of my round... I think my peaceful "option 1" may not be favourite anymore!

I discovered a tank of Kribs, perhaps 20 in the tank, with all but a couple being 1" babies (the others were perhaps 1.5"). The pastel colouring on the fins, especially on the slightly bigger ones, made them look awsome.

Consequently, I have come up with a more ambitious

Option 2
-----------
10 x Rummynose Tetra (Hemigrammus bleheri)
6 x Boesemans Rainbowfish (Melanotaenia boesemani)
1 x Bristlenose Pleco (Ancistrus sp.)
3 x Bolivian Ram (Mikrogeophagus altispinosus)
3 x Kribensis (Pelvicachromis pulcher)
10 x Marble Hatchet (Carnegiella strigata)
2 x Honey Gourami (Trichogaster chuna)


I'm not too sure on what order to add them to the tank. My guess is that the Bosemans would be best first (hardy reputation); Rummynose; Honey; Bristlenose; Krib; Hatchet; Ram.

For each trio school or greater, I hope to get a 1:2 or even 1:3 male:female ratio, although I've no idea of how easy sexes are to tell with 1-1.5" fish (especially Rams and Kribs).

If by some miracle the Rams or Kribs start breeding, I may have a big problem, protecting the Tetras; Hatchets; Gouramis?

 

[OldMan47]

You must be aware that an adult krib is about 3 inches, 7cm, long. The youthful fish that you have found in nice numbers are just that, they are only juveniles, but not adults. Of all of the fish in your proposed stocking I think I would start with the bosemanis or the kribs. The other fish will want bit more mature conditions before they are added. I love my BNPs but doubt that they are good choices for a new tank. I am acutely aware that the rams will not do well in a new tank. I don't even try them in my rather mature tanks. The rummy nose have a reputation for being great schooling fish but not for being especially good early cycle fish. The hatchets and honey gouramis are outside my own experience so I will eave them to other members to evaluate.

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

Thanks for your follow-input, Oldman47. As much as I very much like a stock that is at least based around Option2, part of me is concerned about jumping in at something around the middle of the pool!

As for the Rams and Kribs residing in the bottom, would it perhaps be better to plan on just two females and a male Krib, to at least have the possibility of harmony with the guys swimming above them?

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

How to lose half a scheduled day off work? Getting overwhelmed by so many new and interesting species at Aquajardin in Southampton!

They stock so many more specialist species than Pets At Home and Tropi-Quaria, with the member of staff geving me some helpful pointers and food for thought, without putting on the pushy salesman hat on at all.

Some of the new face-to-face encounters included
Celebes Rainbow
Threadfin Rainbow
African Butterfly
Keyhole Cichlid
Red Robin Dwarf Gourami
Endlers
Cobra Endlers
Emerald Dwarf Rasboras
Celebes Halfbeaks
Zebra Loach
Albino Kribs
Juvenille Bolivian Rams, just starting to get their amazing colouring
Julli Cory
Dwarf Cory
Sterbai Cory
So many specialist Plecs, including Gold Nuggets
A vibrant blue/red eel that can grow to 50cm!
A beautiful, yet evil looking marine blue/yellow eel ~50cm long
A beautiful, yet shy marine fish ~8cm long (gobi?), turquoise head, red/yellow fins

Despite very few tanks having any gravel in, the fish looked a lot healthier (colourful, active) than the other two shops. At this stage, I think they will get my livestock business.

 

[Ryefish]

Part of me wants to support my tropical LFS specialist, buying a Jewel Rio 240 and stock from him, but at the same time he is not coming across as someone who still has passion for his fish

Atleast you didn't get a "i'm only staying here until I can get a higher paid job" LOL

 

[OldMan47]

I can give you a bit of insight when it comes to endlers Goat. I am a registered breeder of wild type endlers, which are called a class N, meaning natural, by the species group preservation system as a whole. My endlers are indeed unique in the sense that i can trace my own fish back to wild endlers. That is not an especially valuable trait these days as the fish that I relate to most often are the ones that have similar ancestry to the ones that I try to keep healthy in my tanks.

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

I have to admit that I do adore those Endlers, Oldman47, but they will not be a good idea with what I think will be two difinite species in a Jewel Rio 240...

4/5x Lake Katubu Rainbow
4/5x Boesemani Rainbow

If I get 5 of each, I hope to get at least two (ideally three) males, as the blokes will have display fights between themselves and give the poor girls a break!

Still yet to decide on whether a small group of top dwellers would be a good idea (Rasbora; Hatchet; Killi).
Still yet to decide on whether some peaceful bottom dwellers (Kuhli Loach; Sterbai Corys; shrimp) or some territorial dwarf cichlids (eg. Apistogramma Borelli) that like pH 7.4 is the way forward... Will be last level to be added, so plenty of time to think on this one, although I really look the idea of a hareem of cichlids, which means the others could get grief.

 

[OldMan47]

I find that my rasboras use the whole water column, not just the top part. Hatchets are a definite top dweller, they are even shaped to allow them to skim along the surface. Unfortunately they are well known to be avid jumpers. Unless you have a very tight fitting lid on the tank, you will probably lose hatchets to jumping. For the bottom, I love the look of sterbais and they tolerate tropical temperatures better than most cories do. You almost never actually see a khuli loach in many tanks. They are great at hiding out of sight. The bottom dweller situation is simple to state. A paired off krib is dangerous to anything else that5 enjoys the bottom of a tank. A krib is extremely territorial once it has paired up and is considering mating. All other fish that live at or near the bottom of the tank will be driven off for quite a distance.