Lfs Ignorance

[Aqua Tom]

A friend of mine recomended a localLFS to me so I gave them a ring this morning to check them out.

Here is how it went.

ring ring

LFS - "Hello ****** Aqautics"

ME - "Good morning, a friend of mine hase recomended you so i thought I would ring with some questions"

LFS "Fire away"

ME - (lots of questions about PH lvls, fish in stock etc then this one) would you be willing to give me a piece of mature filter medium please?

LFS - "You mean boi balls, spong & the like?"

ME - "Yes"

LFS - "Why do you want that?"

ME - (Alarm bells are starting to ring) "Because I need it to help with my fishless cycling."

LFS - "You are cycling your tank without a fish in it?"

ME - "Yes"

LFS - "Well thats why you are having problems, you need a fish in the tank to feed the bacteria."

ME - "Ummm, you do know what fishless cycling is, dont you"

Pause - silence on phone

ME - "I am dosing my tank with ammonia to feed the bacteria"

LFS - "That wont work you need fish waste in your tank"

ME - "So you are saying fish waste, which is ammonia, is different to ammonia out of a bottle?"

LFS - "Yes" (Doesnt sound convinced)

ME - "Ok thanks for your time, I probably wont be using you in future"

LFS - "Why not?"

ME - "Sorry, if you dont know that after our conversation I am not explaining it, but I do suggest that you google fishless cycling"

Silence on phone

ME - "Goodbye" click


The thing is its a massive store so I honestly thought they would know. Think I will stick with the little store I have found.

 

[waterdrop]

I'm sure BP thought Haliburton would know how to mix the cement too.

 

[fluffycabbage]

very very bad

 

[james_fish]

You can name the shop y'know. People cry over Pets At Home every week. No difference is it?

A fish store will rarely recommend fishless cycling as it is 6 weeks of no business for them.

James.

 

[KittyKat]

You might get why, or you might not, but this made me smile and kinda made my day. Thanks for sharing!

 

[JMcQueen]

I tend to find the smaller, independants are actually better than any of the chains. You occasionally get one or two bods who know what they're talking about but most of the time its just college kids working for a bit of extra cash. The smaller places tend to be owner/manager in one and so know their onions (or more so).

 

[Curiosity101]

Lol, the 'So you're saying ammonia from fish and ammonia from a bottle is different?' followed by '...yes' made me laugh.

I can just imagine the questions marks that were probably in their head right then.

 

[elisew]

What a bunch of idiots!!

With that amount of ignorance from some lfs` it`s no wonder so many people find this forum within days of having set their new tanks up
It makes me so mad that people such as that actually think they know it all when they clearly have absolutely no idea, imcompetent IDIOTS

 

[ZoddyZod]

I'm sure BP thought Haliburton would know how to mix the cement too.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA!

 

[the biffster]

shot down in flames again

 

[Curiosity101]

what do you expect with 30 minutes training they get when they first get taken on

^^
This isn't true of all chains. Some chains even have written exams the people have to pass, it can often be a case that what they're teaching is absolute rubbish rather than the lack of teaching.

according to them fish waste is different ammonia.is bleach

Ammonia isn't bleach. Who knows what that persons theory was on why ammonia from fish and from a bottle is different. Chances are they'd never been posed with that question before.

 

[JMcQueen]

Unless they meant the type of ammonia that contains other substances than water and ammonia.

 

[nurglespuss]

Just a few small points....

This is a petshop, it sells pets and related items, they aren't meant to be experts. If their stock is alive and healthy, its up to the buyer to do their research.

Not all 'ammonia' is the same, fishless cycling is still fairly 'new' in terms of adoption, and isn't yet proven to be more effective (or 'kinder') than cycling with fish (and I'm not saying its is or isn't, just that there is no evidence base).

I would say that, ideally petshop owners/employee's etc. should know a bit about what they sell, but its your cash, your responsibility, and if you ask their opinion, thats what you get, their opinion, they don't profess to be experts in any way shape or form.

I understand that stories like this make us laugh, but really, expectations are often set too high, and any responsibility is purely that of the the fishkeeper.

mini rant over....

 

[Curiosity101]

Not all 'ammonia' is the same,

I don't get what you mean by not all ammonia is the same? It is... Unless you mean some bottled stuff comes with fragrances added? If you mean the ammonia that fish produce comes in a different compound to the pure ammonia we get in bottles then actually it doesn't. I don't know if this goes for all fish (theres always going to be come exceptions to the rule lol), but alot of fish actually excrete pure ammonia (NH3) through their gills and into the water.

fishless cycling is still fairly 'new' in terms of adoption, and isn't yet proven to be more effective (or 'kinder') than cycling with fish (and I'm not saying its is or isn't, just that there is no evidence base).

I have to very strongly disagree with this. Fishless cycling as an easy to follow step by step mainstream method is still 'new', but fishless cycling has been around for ages, so there is plenty of evidence to show it's better for the fish.

There is a signficantly greater number of fish living to their maximum life expectancy and further if you pre cycle the tank. There is also the very clear correlation between ammonia levels and death due to ammonia poisoning. There is also a very clear correlation between nitrites and deaths.
Although fish in cycles can be done where the fish are brought through without casualty, low levels of poisoning is never going to be better than NO level of poisoning.

Side note:
Although I do vaugely agree that it's a general pet store etc etc. At the same time people campaign and enforce that the correct information and care advice is given out for small furries. So it's only fair that the same courtesy be given to all animals. Some places are always going to be better than others... but they should (in an ideal world) be putting as much care and attention into the information they give out for all animals they sell.

 

[nurglespuss]

Not all 'ammonia' is the same,

I don't get what you mean by not all ammonia is the same? It is... Unless you mean some bottled stuff comes with fragrances added? If you mean the ammonia that fish produce comes in a different compound to the pure ammonia we get in bottles then actually it doesn't. I don't know if this goes for all fish (theres always going to be come exceptions to the rule lol), but alot of fish actually excrete pure ammonia (NH3) through their gills and into the water.

***Unfortunately, thats only part of the ammonia released, and no, its not hte pure form found in produced bottles***

fishless cycling is still fairly 'new' in terms of adoption, and isn't yet proven to be more effective (or 'kinder') than cycling with fish (and I'm not saying its is or isn't, just that there is no evidence base).

I have to very strongly disagree with this. Fishless cycling as an easy to follow step by step mainstream method is still 'new', but fishless cycling has been around for ages, so there is plenty of evidence to show it's better for the fish.

***'easy to follow?' I fail to see the relevance of this comment to the discussion? .. Its not mainstream, the mainstream method is still 'buy tank, buy fish the next day, chuck them in and see what happens' unfortunately***

There is a signficantly greater number of fish living to their maximum life expectancy and further if you pre cycle the tank.

***do you have any empyrical evidence for this (you don't btw, no one has ever done any research on the topic)***

There is also the very clear correlation between ammonia levels and death due to ammonia poisoning.

***thats not a correlation, lol, thats a direct cuase and effect, no one is debating excessive ammonia levels cause fish deaths, just whether fish/fishless cycling makes any difference to eventual levels of ammonia.

There is also a very clear correlation between nitrites and deaths.

***see previous comment***

Although fish in cycles can be done where the fish are brought through without casualty, low levels of poisoning is never going to be better than NO level of poisoning.

***your problem there is the 'assumed' effect, there's no evidence to suggest that 'any' poisoning occurs.***

Side note:
Although I do vaugely agree that it's a general pet store etc etc. At the same time people campaign and enforce that the correct information and care advice is given out for small furries. So it's only fair that the same courtesy be given to all animals. Some places are always going to be better than others... but they should (in an ideal world) be putting as much care and attention into the information they give out for all animals they sell.

***Although i can see your point, its still the responsibility of the person making the purchase, they are commiting to looking after the creature until its eventual expiration, thats not what the petshop exists for. Some are becomming very generous in providing free information, others quite reasonably expect you to buy a book (possibly from them) and read up yourself***