Lee's Fishless Cycle

[leemdylan]

I have been wanting to post my fishless cycle diary but thought i would wait until I had some significant data .
I begun my fishless cycle on 11th March. I have no mature media for my filter, it is brand new.
My tank is 60 litres and has stone like gravel on the bottom with some rock and plastic decoration.
I put in between 3ml and 4ml of ammonia (from Homebase).
I am using a Nutrafin testing kit to test the water.
My ammonia levels have finally reduced to zero for the first time, but my nitrite levels are still sky high.
Here are my results in mg/l or ppm (3.3 is the highest level of nitrite my kit identifies and 110 is the highest level of nitrate):

Can anyone guess as to how long it will take my nitrite levels to reduce? When should i do my first water change?
I have also been using Nutrafin Cycle as it is supposed to speed up the cycling but clearly it has not worked or i am not using it correctly

 

[Twinklecaz]

From what I've been told I don't think it does work. Lol not that I won't be using it too coz I got a free bottle and it's worth a try!

 

[waterdrop]

Hi Leemdylan and welcome to TFF!

I don't think anyone will be able to predict the length of your Fishless Cycle on your 60L/16G very closely because each individual case varies wildly from the next. About the only loose thing we can say is that nearly all of the cases we've seen have had their completion time fall within 21 days to 80 days. The biggest factor that makes some slower and some faster is that there's no telling how many stray Nitrosomonas and Nitrospira bacterial cells will happen to ride in on the first filling of your tank with your particular local tap water.

Even though the time varies widely, I sometimes give the following fictitional description of the progression of a fishless cycle, just so that a beginner can have a picture in their head which can later be modified, lol.

Phase 1: 20 days: Waiting for ammonia to drop to zero for the first time and then for it to drop faster and faster. Watching for Nitrite(NO2) to begin to appear.
Phase 2: 20 days: Watching the "Nitrite Spike" (Nitrite(NO2) is leftover in excess of what the nitrite eaters can handle and tests at the highest test mark.
Phase 3: 20 days: The nitrite spike finally subsides and nitrite drops to zero within 24 hours. During this last phase you watch for both ammonia and nitrite to get so fast at dropping that finally they both drop to zero within 12 hours. When this happens you can start your "qualification week" to make sure it keeps doing it.

I'm not sure but I believe sometimes when Nutrafin Cycle is tossed in (which, as you've heard, doesn't help), the nitrite and nitrate levels are jumped up to max right away, obscuring your view of the real nitrite/nitrate levels that would give you feedback on what the bacteria themselves are currently doing.

To my mind you could pick any upcoming weekend and do a 90% deep-gravel-clean-water-change (with conditioner, temperature matching and a recharge of ammonia.) This would clear away the high nitrite and nitrate levels you seem to have and which can slow the growth process.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[leemdylan]

Thanks for your reply Waterdrop
I was wondering about what you said regardind doing a 90% water change.
I don't have the facilities to preheat that much water as i only have the one tank. Do you think i could achieve the same thing doing daily 20% water changes? I am just afraid that if i change that much water in one go and fill my tank up with cooler water the bacteria I have aready developed will die off.

On a positive note, after only 2 days of adding my second batch of ammonia, the levels are reducing quite quickly!

 

[waterdrop]

Depending on how your house heats hot water you might be able to just use some of that or a couple kettles off the stove. Cold water won't kill the bacteria, just slow the forward progress for a bit until things warm up again. (Drying bacteria out is much more disastrous!) Many of us use hose systems to run water straight from a mixing tap into the tank.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[leemdylan]

Hey Waterdrop!
I did the 90% water change last night, put in the dechlorinator and then recharged my water with ammonia. My readings were:

Ammonia 4.9
Nitrite 0.3
Nitrate 5
PH 7.5

I have tested the water again 24 hours later and they are as follows:

Ammonia 2.4
Nitrite 3.3
Nitrate 110
PH 6.0

Is it right that my nitrite/nitrate levels have shot right back up? Is this normal?

 

[waterdrop]

As far as our normal advice goes I don't believe we'd find anything wrong with what you're seeing. The nitrite spike phase often shows nitrite and nitrate wanting to stay quite high.

Its probably overthinking it but I do find it kind of curious that it skyrocketed so quickly after a large water change. We see that the ammonia test thinks you put about 5ppm in there and we know that each 1ppm of ammonia is converted into about 2.7ppm of nitrite(NO2) and then on to about 3.6ppm of nitrate(NO3) finally. If the first conversion took place it could easily explain getting the 3.3 NO2 reading but the very fact that nitrite is spiked should indicate that there are not enough N-Bacs to convert much of it on to the nitrate(NO3) stage and yet you got a nitrate(NO3) reading of 110 (pegged) right away!

I feel like I've seen a number of cases with this exact same pattern lately and the thing they have in common is that (I guess) the free Nutrafin Cycle has been used and also the test kit is a Nutrafin test kit. I have no idea if this means anything or if any of us could figure out what it meant even if it did, lol.

The one thing that does concern me is that you're telling us that pH is now down to 6.0 and this has come right after a water change.. not only that buy your chart indicates you measured your tap water at pH=5.5 (pretty acid!) Ideally some other members will comment but I think we may have to try using baking soda (baking soda, not baking powder and dosed at a tablespoon for every 50L.) I usually do this right after a large water change but if you don't feel like doing another one you could do it directly.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[leemdylan]

Thanks for your reply Waterdrop, i have put in the bicarbonate of soda and my PH has gone up from 6 to 7.5.

My Nitrite readings are still the same at 3.3.
With the Nitrate readings, it may be that i am not reading the scale correctly. The colours on my testing kit for nitrate indicate a light purple through to a very dark purple but when i test my water i get a very cerise pink which makes me think that the colour matches the closest to the 110 mark.

Infact the colour of my nitrate test water sample is exactly the same as the water test of my nitrite and my nitrite matches up perfectly on the chart. I was reading the testing instructions and it does say that whilst cycling a new tank, high nitrite levels will interfere with nitrate readings. Maybe it is best if i don't test nitrate untill my nitrite has started reducing as, as you have pointed out, i shouldn't be getting nitrate readings if the nitrite hasn't broken down yet!

I will tes my water again tomorrow and see what, if anything is happening.

Oh, and i stopped using the Nutrafin Cycle as it said to only use it for the first 3 days and then again after each large water change. I haven't used it since the first week, it seems nothing good comes of it!

 

[OldMan47]

Welcome to the forum Lee.
I have found, by watching lots of these threads, that the nitrite spike tends to last at least as long as it takes to get the ammonia processing, and quite often as much as twice as long. That means that you have at least another 20 days before the nitrites will move along nicely and maybe more like 30 or even 40 more days.

 

[leemdylan]

I was concerned when Waterdrop said my tap water is pretty acidic so i tested it again from all of the different taps in the house, and even the shower, and got the same acidic reading of 5.5. I then tested my brothers who lives across town and his tap water was just as acidic as mine. So i tested my partners water who lives in Liverpool, the city closest to me, and there the PH level was pretty neutral at 7.0!

I thought the problem could have been because we were having problems with our boiler lately, but if the water from the other side of town is just as acidic as mine then i guess the whole town willl have this reading.

Oldman47 I hope it doesn't take 40 more days! But nevertheless i am prepared to wait if it does! It is such a slow process. I have been cycling for 19 days now and it seems like a lifetime, i am looking forward to the day i can stock my tank.

 

[leemdylan]

Finally! My nitrite levels have started to decrease!
I have been away since Thursday because I went to a friend's 30th birthday celebrations in London. My dad kindly kept checking my ammonia and nitrite levels for me every 12 hours. When i came home he said my nitrite levels have gone down, i didn't believe him so i tested it myself and they sure enough have gone down!

I then tested my nitrate levels and this confirmed that my nitrate readings have been wrong all along because of the presence of too much nitrite! I actually only have 10 mg/l of nitrate! Below i have posted my results, today is Day 27 of my fishless cycle.

So my question now is:
I am going to keep checking my ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels every 12 hours. What am i looking for? When will my cycle be done and can i begin to stock my tank?

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, very good news that your nitrite spike has finally dropped off! And you accomplished it without your pH ever crashing down from the 7.5 level that you still have, that's good too.

I like to divide the fishless cycle into three phases, before, during and after the nitrite spike. You are now moving in to that third phase, after the spike. The thing that characterizes the third phase is that nitrite(NO2) is now dropping down to zerp ppm about 24 hours after you add ammonia (at the beginning of the third phase.) As the phase progresses, you are watching to see if nitrite(NO2) can drop to zero faster and faster. You watch this by seeing if the amount of nitrite left at 12 hours (12 hours after adding ammonia) goes down. Meanwhile you expect that the 24 hour test of nitrite will continue to just show zero ppm.

This third phase of fishless cycling can have its problems. One common one is what we call "the sticking problem." This is where the 12 hour nitrite test will continue to get lower and lower until it reaches about 0.25ppm but will then seem to "stick" at that number and never reach zero ppm. On tanks that do this we find that simply waiting it out will eventually work and result in a perfectly cycled tank, or in some cases where the first stocking will be fairly low, like 50%, we just quit the fishless cycling early sometimes. Another problem sometimes is that during the third phase the ammonia (which as been performing just great, always dropping to zero each day) can suddenly "stumble" and start leaving a trace at 12 or even 24 hours. This stumble will eventually go away, just like the nitrite(NO2.)

The goal in fishless cycling is to reach a day when both ammonia and nitrite(NO2) reach zero ppm at 12 hours after ammonia was dosed. If that happens then you can start your "qualifying week" where you just continue you watch it drop 5ppm of ammonia to double zeros each day within 12 hours. After that the big 90% water change can occur about the time that the first stocking of fish is finally introduced. At this point the clock starts on your regular "with fish" maintenance routines also. (like the weekly gravel-clean-water-change and the monthly filter clean)

~~waterdrop~~