I'm Man Enough To Admit I Could Be Wrong.....

[The-Wolf]

Hi all
After, stating many times that the max adult size for the Yoyo loach
Botia almorhae is 8", I could be wrong.

I have been in discussions with some loach experts, both publicly (on another forum) and via email.
There seems to be a consensus that B.almorhae has at least one known (if not yet recognised) subspecies (or regional varient), this is the one that reaches 8".
It would seem that both are sold under the name Yoyo loach/Pakistani loach B. almorhae and that is it pot luck as to which one you purchase.

In conclusion, If this does indeed turn out to be a subspecies/regional varient of B.almorhae then my statement is wrong, and I freely admit my error.
For now I stand by my statement that Yoyos will reach 8".

I wonder if Fang Fang and Kullander, or some other ichthyologists, are doing a study on this subject. Only time will tell.

 

[OohFeeshy]

It all gets very confuzzling when you go into subspecies. For instance, my LFS has a tank of male short fin bettas. Yep, all together. Well, he says they're a subspecies, which I doubt very much as I've never heard of it. I'm almost positive they're young plakats who are apparently more tollerant of siblings than other tail types. Well, who knows. I'm just not going to try it in a hurry .

Anyway, back to loaches. Isn't it just a heck of a lot easier to say ALL yoyo's get to 8"? After all, its much better to provide a 6? (however big the smaller one gets) inch fish with a spacious home than an 8 inch fish with too small a home. You don't loose anything by assuming they get to 8". That may mean they are too big for your tank, but thats just tough luck.

 

[andywg]

Actually, there are quite a few species in the Betta genus, quite a few of which happily co-habit. Betta imbelis is the one I alway remember.

 

[glolite]

I have had 2 pakistani (yo yo) loaches since last November and their previous owner had them for a year. Now they are 6 inches long and haven't grown since I've had them and have always been in a 45g tank. So I'm assuming they are sub-species? Not that it matters to me, they're beautiful fish with a velvet-like sheen to their skins, not to mention having comical personalities.

 

[Barracuda518]

How long did it take for yours to get 8"?

 

[The-Wolf]

see thats the thing
the two largest ones I have were free with a free tank
I've had them over a year now and they were just over 6" then.
the two that are 6" now, I have only just got.
In both cases the owners said they had them for a couple of years.

I have four that I brought (approx 3 months ago) at 1.5" which are now close to 3".

 

[chishnfips]

I just looked up yoyo loach and it aaid the average size is 4 inches, I suppose it depends on the size of your tank.


Not all people grow to the same size fish may vary quite a bit too.

 

[Barracuda518]

see thats the thing
the two largest ones I have were free with a free tank
I've had them over a year now and they were just over 6" then.
the two that are 6" now, I have only just got.
In both cases the owners said they had them for a couple of years.

I have four that I brought (approx 3 months ago) at 1.5" which are now close to 3".

[snapback]868225[/snapback]​

what are you feeding them??

 

[Barracuda518]

I just looked up yoyo loach and it aaid the average size is 4 inches, I suppose it depends on the size of your tank.


Not all people grow to the same size fish may vary quite a bit too.

[snapback]868228[/snapback]​

Yeah Ive seen that a bunch of places too...but there people on this message board, like Wolf, who have some that are 6-8"...Im just wondering if the ones here in the US are a different species are something?

 

[The-Wolf]

what are you feeding them??

[snapback]868230[/snapback]​

Sera vipan (flakes), JMC catfish pellets, Hikari sinking wafers,
live brine shrimp, live bloodworm, live tubifex, frozen bloodworm,
frozen tropical mix and the occasional maggot. (not all at the same time)

 

[Barracuda518]

what are you feeding them??

[snapback]868230[/snapback]​

Sera vipan (flakes), JMC catfish pellets, Hikari sinking wafers,
live brine shrimp, live bloodworm, live tubifex, frozen bloodworm,
frozen tropical mix and the occasional maggot. (not all at the same time)

[snapback]868236[/snapback]​

Maybe thats some secret food formula that makes them get bigger...HAHA!

 

[chishnfips]

see thats the thing
the two largest ones I have were free with a free tank
I've had them over a year now and they were just over 6" then.
the two that are 6" now, I have only just got.
In both cases the owners said they had them for a couple of years.

I have four that I brought (approx 3 months ago) at 1.5" which are now close to 3".

[snapback]868225[/snapback]​

what are you feeding them??

[snapback]868230[/snapback]​

TLC and the right surroundings probably

 

[The-Wolf]

Ok after more studying
I have come to this conclusion

Botia almorhae and Botia lohachata are two very
different species of fish, and not the same fish that is supposed
on many sites.

B.almorhae (yoyo/pakistani loach) are the ones that reach 6"
and B.lohachata are the ones that reach 8+"

The problem is that the young of each fish are almost identical
in that they have the "Y" patterning. In B.lohachata this dissipates
and becomes more diluted as the fish gets older and grows, whereas
B.almorhae keeps its patterning almost in tact in adulthood.

Fishbase now have B.almorhae listed as Almorha loach
with 15.2cm being the adult size and B.lohachata is listed
as a Reticulate loach, although they have the adult sized listed as 11cm .

I am convinced that I have both species and will endeavour to get
good enough photos to show the difference.
I have email Palomares, Ma. Lourdes D. at Fisheries Centre, University of British Columbia who is a collaberator on fishbase and is listed for both entries in the vain hope of trying to get some sort of genetic evidence to settle this matter.

Watch this space

references
B.lohachata
B.almorhae

 

[Bloo]

very interesting indeed. Would like to hear more on the subject and would be great to hear form other YoYo (Pakistani) Loach owners.....

 

[The-Wolf]

ok here is my photographic proof

As you can clearly see B.almorhae has retained the "Y" pattern
and on the B.lohachata it has dissipated.

I am 100% convinced that both species are sold as the same fish, and that
you will never know when purchasing the yoyo/pakistani loach what one you
are buying.