Ich

[BarrierReef]

Newcomer only just joined this site in the hope that someone can help me I have ich in my tank. Ive read all about it on t'internet and various sites and i started treatment about 7 days ago. Ive been using King British which says to use every 48 hours. So far ive lost 3 of my 4 Gouramis and the last one is losing its tail. No spots on it. I didnt get any spots on the other 3 either. Ive also lost a Rummy nose tetra and a Zebra Danio. 2 of my melon barbs have it and 1 of my other zebra danios. They either have spots OR theyve been behaving strangely by flicking or rubbing against the tank sides or the bottom. Im 100% convinced its ich. Ive added salt and upped the temp to 30 degrees. I hoover the sand every day.My tank is clean and not overstocked.My water is clean and within safe limits. Anyone any other ideas? I was contemplating changing the treatment but could i safely change medication with the King British melachite green inside the tank? Thanks in anticipation for any advice you could give

 

[KittyKat]

What is the salinity in the tank now? What type of salt did you use? Can you list all your fish by species and number? You could be losing *some* of the fish because of the salt, as some of the species you mention do not tolerate salt.

What maintenance do you do? (Usual and special for the treatment.) What are the dimensions of the tank?

What are your water paramenters in numbers? Safe means ammonia 0 ppm, nitrite 0 ppm, nitrate under 25 ppm, pH 6.5-7 and neutral hardness. Malachite green can kill off the filter, so be careful about using it.

 

[BarrierReef]

Hi. Thanks for your reply.Its 280 ltr of actual water.I dont have means to test the salinity. I put 10 desert spoonfulls of API aquarium salt in on Saturday, which was less than most recommendations. The actual box says 1 tablespoon for every 20ltrs.Id lost ALL my fish before i added the salt.I didnt want to put too much salt in. All the water parameters are fine and within limits.
Ive lost 5 fish within the last 10 days.

Ive got 4 X female bettas[none affected], 10 glowlight tetras [none affected], 3 torpedo barbs [none affected], 6 melon barbs [2 affected], 4 dwarf gouramis [3 died within the last 10 days- the other is affected] 5 rummy nose tetras [one died], 5 Zebra Danios [one died]

One other thing.......I bought my dwarf gouramis as a pair 2 weeks ago. 3 days later one was very sick and almost dead. I took it back and they gave me another. This lasted another 3 days. I took this one back and they replaced again. 3 days later one had died in the tank, now on the last one. Strange thing is i went in the shop Saturday and they had 2 Gouramis there with hardly any tails on [same as mine now] so im thinking they had a bad batch and its these that have given my other fish their problem?

 

[BarrierReef]

Forgot to mention. I hoover the sand out to get rid of some of those dormont tomonts [i believe they are called]and change 30 ltrs of water everyday for the last 7 days. King British white spot treatment every 48 hours as it stipulates.

 

[KittyKat]

It is probably a good idea to avoid the aquarium salt while you keep tetras.

It sounds like the gouramis had finrot, which is usually curable with medication, but they are very picky about water quality. Can you please list your exact water parameters? How did you acclimatise the new fish? (Just trying to eliminate potential causes for why the fish still have whitespot.)

Between the KB doses, did you do very large water changes? When did you start using it? What do the instructions say to do about multiple doses? Normally, you would need to do 90-95%+ water changes to *remove* all old medication before adding more as it is quite harmful to the fish, as well being harmful to ich, which is why very sick fish do not always survive treatment.

 

[BarrierReef]

Inbetween the KB doses i change about 30 ltrs of water which in my tank is about 9%, and i also change the same amount before dosing. So thats 30 ltrs every day for the last 8 days. My last dose was last night and that was the 5th dose every 48 hours. It doesnt say about multiple doses, just says 'repeat treatment at 48 hour intervals while symptoms persist and continue treatment for 48 hours after all spots have gone. A 10% water change is recommended after the problem has been terminated" It doesnt say to change water inbetween treatments. Ive been doing this as other sites say to do this to get rid of the tomonts in the substrate which are waiting to burst open and find a new host.

My tetras seem fine. I havent gone OTT with the salt and just about every site ive been on seems to say that salt will help to kill ich. If its hard on my Tetras then i think id rather have that if it saves the other fish.Im closely monitoring them.

Ive just tested my water again [havent done the water change yet] and its as follows
Ammonia ZERO
PH 7.6 [its usually 7.3 i wonder if the medication is changing it]
Nitrite ZERO
Nitrate 15 ppm [will go lower with the water change in the next half hour]


My last Gourami died last night. In the space of 5 hours since before my last post to going to bed its fins and tail had disappered by another 50%. Two of my smallest Melon Barbs have hardly any tail.There dont seem to be as many spots about though.They do have all the other symptoms of ich. Some ich sites say that fin and tail loss is also a secondary disease caused by ich.My fish were fine till i put those Gouramis in. I didnt quarantine them though. Ive learned my lesson now
I certainly wont buy anymore from that shop. They came in on the Monday, were quarantined same day and were on sale when i bought them the next day Tuesday. [ i know this as i was in on the monday when they were delivered and asked when they were on sale]

 

[KittyKat]

Inbetween the KB doses i change about 30 ltrs of water which in my tank is about 9%, and i also change the same amount before dosing. So thats 30 ltrs every day for the last 8 days. My last dose was last night and that was the 5th dose every 48 hours. It doesnt say about multiple doses, just says 'repeat treatment at 48 hour intervals while symptoms persist and continue treatment for 48 hours after all spots have gone. A 10% water change is recommended after the problem has been terminated" It doesnt say to change water inbetween treatments. Ive been doing this as other sites say to do this to get rid of the tomonts in the substrate which are waiting to burst open and find a new host.

Can you check the ingredients on the med? I have this nagging feeling that it does contain something quite nasty that will build up, if not removed from the water by carbon or water changes, and is harmful to the fish.
The instructions are correct in saying do +1 treatment after all symptoms are gone: medication kills ich only in its free swimming form, when you cannot see it.
You are completely correct about removing the tomonts, but you need to be doing much larger water changes every time for them to really make a difference.

My tetras seem fine. I havent gone OTT with the salt and just about every site ive been on seems to say that salt will help to kill ich. If its hard on my Tetras then i think id rather have that if it saves the other fish.Im closely monitoring them.

It is also true that ich is a freshwater parasite, so cannot survive in salt water, but I think it would be better for some of your fish to not have salt in their water. Basically, salt is a reasonable way to treat livebearers, Rift Lake cichlids, and other hardwater fish against ich, but not so good for any soft water fish.

Ive just tested my water again [havent done the water change yet] and its as follows […]

pH varies throughout the day, and the difference in nothing to worry about. Readings look good, do you know if you have hard or soft water?

My last Gourami died last night. In the space of 5 hours since before my last post to going to bed its fins and tail had disappered by another 50%. Two of my smallest Melon Barbs have hardly any tail.There dont seem to be as many spots about though.They do have all the other symptoms of ich. Some ich sites say that fin and tail loss is also a secondary disease caused by ich.

If the fish is stressed enough to get a secondary infections (like finrot), then it is unlikely to survive treatment, in my opinion, so it could be that the gouramis were too far gone.
How do you acclimatise new fish?

My fish were fine till i put those Gouramis in. I didnt quarantine them though. Ive learned my lesson now
I certainly wont buy anymore from that shop. They came in on the Monday, were quarantined same day and were on sale when i bought them the next day Tuesday. [ i know this as i was in on the monday when they were delivered and asked when they were on sale]

Few shops quarantine fish, and only some wholesalers do, so there's a good chance that any other shop you go to will be the same. It is probably better that you modify your buying patter instead. There are a number of things that you can do to make sure that the fish that you buy are healthy. For example, you can watch them over a period of a few weeks to essentially "quarantine them"; buy fish the day before deliveries, not the day after; check every fish in every tank on the same filtration system and each tank either side for health problems (if you see any dead or ill fish, walk away and come back another day); do not buy any fish within a few days of delivery, they are most likely to die.

 

[BarrierReef]

Inbetween the KB doses i change about 30 ltrs of water which in my tank is about 9%, and i also change the same amount before dosing. So thats 30 ltrs every day for the last 8 days. My last dose was last night and that was the 5th dose every 48 hours. It doesnt say about multiple doses, just says 'repeat treatment at 48 hour intervals while symptoms persist and continue treatment for 48 hours after all spots have gone. A 10% water change is recommended after the problem has been terminated" It doesnt say to change water inbetween treatments. Ive been doing this as other sites say to do this to get rid of the tomonts in the substrate which are waiting to burst open and find a new host.

Can you check the ingredients on the med? I have this nagging feeling that it does contain something quite nasty that will build up, if not removed from the water by carbon or water changes, and is harmful to the fish.
The instructions are correct in saying do +1 treatment after all symptoms are gone: medication kills ich only in its free swimming form, when you cannot see it.
You are completely correct about removing the tomonts, but you need to be doing much larger water changes every time for them to really make a difference.

My tetras seem fine. I havent gone OTT with the salt and just about every site ive been on seems to say that salt will help to kill ich. If its hard on my Tetras then i think id rather have that if it saves the other fish.Im closely monitoring them.

It is also true that ich is a freshwater parasite, so cannot survive in salt water, but I think it would be better for some of your fish to not have salt in their water. Basically, salt is a reasonable way to treat livebearers, Rift Lake cichlids, and other hardwater fish against ich, but not so good for any soft water fish.

Ive just tested my water again [havent done the water change yet] and its as follows […]

pH varies throughout the day, and the difference in nothing to worry about. Readings look good, do you know if you have hard or soft water?

My last Gourami died last night. In the space of 5 hours since before my last post to going to bed its fins and tail had disappered by another 50%. Two of my smallest Melon Barbs have hardly any tail.There dont seem to be as many spots about though.They do have all the other symptoms of ich. Some ich sites say that fin and tail loss is also a secondary disease caused by ich.

If the fish is stressed enough to get a secondary infections (like finrot), then it is unlikely to survive treatment, in my opinion, so it could be that the gouramis were too far gone.
How do you acclimatise new fish?

My fish were fine till i put those Gouramis in. I didnt quarantine them though. Ive learned my lesson now
I certainly wont buy anymore from that shop. They came in on the Monday, were quarantined same day and were on sale when i bought them the next day Tuesday. [ i know this as i was in on the monday when they were delivered and asked when they were on sale]

Few shops quarantine fish, and only some wholesalers do, so there's a good chance that any other shop you go to will be the same. It is probably better that you modify your buying patter instead. There are a number of things that you can do to make sure that the fish that you buy are healthy. For example, you can watch them over a period of a few weeks to essentially "quarantine them"; buy fish the day before deliveries, not the day after; check every fish in every tank on the same filtration system and each tank either side for health problems (if you see any dead or ill fish, walk away and come back another day); do not buy any fish within a few days of delivery, they are most likely to die.

 

[BarrierReef]

The KB treatment is Malachite Green 4% solution.1%w/w,Acriflavine 0.005%w/w, and Quinine sulphate 0.004% w/w [i dont know what the w/w is, ive only typed what it says on the bottle. It says use half the normal dose when adding to tanks containing sharks, loaches and other sensitive or light scaled fish. Ive been giving the full dose as i assumed my fish werent light scaled.It does also say not to use with any other fish treatments or medicines. I was thinking of changing to another brand but with what it says about not mixing with other medicines and what you said about doing a 90-95 % water change, ive decided to stick with the same treatment.

I changed 60 ltrs of water tonight. I'll change the same amount tomorrow before dosing again.

I dont have any way of testing the water hardness. I will go in my LFS and see if theres something available. Likewise i may buy something to test the salinity.

If a fish has fin rot, can it spread to others? I ask as ive now set up a small hospital tank. I havent put anything in yet. I couldnt catch any of my Melon Barbs even with 2 nets. With it being quite a big tank they are too fast.One has now lost all his tail fin in the last few hours.

Im afraid im guilty of just using the float the new fish bag in the tank for 30 minutes method. I assume they are safe. I wont get caught out again though thats for sure

My son bought a pair of Gouramis for his tank from the same shop as me [even the same tank in the shop] but he got his a week before mine. He got the last powder blue one and it was a week later when i went back to buy mine from the new batch. He hasnt had any problems at all, with any of his fish. He also has a mixed community tank, tetras,barbs, plec, Chinese algae eater, minnows,mollies,corys.

IF i changed another 60 0r maybe 80 ltrs of water tomorrow, and instead of putting more of the same medication in, what if i put carbon in for a day and then changed medication? Would another water change and the carbon rid my tank of the KB so i could try another medication?

Ive just checked again, and although the infected ich fish seem to be less spotty, 2 of my other Melon Barbs without spots seem to be having symptoms. Out of 6, only 2 are healthy. Are some fish species just more disease resistant to others?