I Have A Cunning Plan…..or I Do I?

[Lazerus]

Ok, the story so far is that I’m doing my fishless cycle at the moment on my 22gal tank.

I’m at the stage where it’s processing all the 5ppm of Ammonia in 12hrs and Nitrites are still high…(I often can't read the test) so I'm no where near coming down as yet. Nitrates are always around 20ppm-40ppm.

My pH is 7.8 out of the tap, but I have lots of bogwood and organic plant substrate which naturally brings the pH down, but this combined with the high Nitrites means I occasionally get a dramatic pH drop, and need to use bicarb to bring it back up.

So….

The problem is, in two weeks time I will be going away for a week…and then two weeks after that I’ll be gong away again…..I have already gone away for 5 days previously when doing this cycle and it set me back lots, so I don’t want to do that again.

So, this is what I’m thinking of doing instead….but I need your thoughts about that and advice about the pH thing.

I’m thinking of doing a 100% water change (or as much as possible!), then adding my mature filter from my 10gal and put it into the 22gal. (I already have two filters running in the 22gal already – one was mature, the other was the one I wanted cycled)

Then, when all the filters are in place and the water is topped back up….I add my fish from my 10gal….and leave it like that for a while and won't worry about adding fish for about 2 months, and when I do (if I do!) I just do it slowly.

Will this work?

I realize that it won’t be up to full capacity of 5ppm which is the aim of fishless cycling, but at this stage rather than loosing weeks of work again, this might be my answer.

Now the only reservation I have is about that pH problem…would it start to crash again or should it be okay?

If I'm doing this I need to do it immediately so I can monitor it for the next two weeks before I go away.

I believe the only reason its crashing is because of the Nitrite & Nitrate overload which breaks down the pH of the water causing it to drop dramatically. Is this right?

So what are you thoughts? Cunning plan, or just plain stupid!

 

[petertr]

Why didn't you just use mature media from your other filter in the first place?

Or just add the new filter to the other tank for 2 weeks to get it up to speed?


Either of those ways would be totally, or at least mostly, removed the need for a fishless cycle.

 

[rdd1952]

Your plan would definitely work. The filter on the tank they are in is cycled for the number of fish in it so moving it over and adding them would be fine.

 

[Lazerus]

Hi Pete...Yes, I had a mature filter in my tank plus the new filter for the new tank had been run in my old tank for several weeks.

I thought I would be finished up much sooner, but its not happening for me for some reason...as I say, I think I lost alot of time at the start when I went away for those 5 days. I had added fish food to the tank using an automatic feeder for the duration, but it obviously wasn't enough. I think the filter experienced a major bacterial die-off loosing weeks of work....

This is the reason I'm looking to change my method.

Rdd....Yes, I thought the plan might work alright....I think I might go ahead with it unless anybody see's any major pitfalls?

Now all I need to know is whether the pH will be stable? I'm really hoping it will.

 

[rdd1952]

There should not be any problem with the pH unless something happens in the tank. High nitrates can push pH down but that shouldn't build enough in a couple weeks to cause a problem. Even if it drops .5 or so slowly over that time, it wouldn't present a problem. Just check it when you get back before doing water changes.

 

[backtotropical]

Hi Lazerus,

It sounds like your plan would work fine. A few things to note though are

1. Make sure you remove all ammonia and nitrite from the 22gal before swapping the filter and fish over. I'm sure your established fish from the 10 gal don't want to face ammonia poisoning.

2. You must move the filter and the fish over at the same time. Any time delay between moving these will result in a loss of bacteria and may cause a mini-cycle.

3. You have already said this, but just to confirm, you should monitor ammonia and nitrite daily for at least one week after the move. If you detect any ammonia or nitrite, you must start water changes immediately.

Also to re-iterate what RDD said on pH, it won't be a problem. The large pH changes you are experiencing are caused by the increased biological filtration which happens during a fishless cycle. Once you add fish, you'll find that it isn't nearly so much of a problem.

Let us know how you get on?

Cheers

BTT

 

[Lazerus]

Ok...Thanks everyone.....

I intend to remove a much water as I can from the new tank.....then fill it all back up again. Bring it up to temp and leave the filters running to clear the tank abit.

Then, after a few hours, I'll add fish and old filter together at the exactly the same time. Nail biting stuff!

I imagine the two cycling filters I have running in the new tank would easily be able to accommodate my current fish even as they are, as I don't have that many. I imagine my fish wouldn't amount to even 2ppm per 12hrs? But who knows! I still add my 10gal filter in too, so all three will be running concurrently.

It will give me a full week and a half to monitor whats going on...I have a kH tester so I can be using that to predict any major pH drops. But as you say, it probably won't happen.

If it all fails, and see the Kh dropping again, I can still fall back on my 10gal and then just start fresh on my 22gal when I return.

Thank you very much!

P.s I know alot of you are probably saying "you should have done this in the first place" but to be honest, I wanted to experience doing a fishless cycle...I quite enjoy the whole 'science' bit and learning about water perimeters etc. I've really learned loads over these past few weeks.

Plus I wasn't sure at the time what I wanted to do with this new 22gal tank....or if I wanted to add my 10gal fish to this tank...my 10gal is quite a nice little community tank as it is. Anyhoo!

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, I've reviewed your plan and agree with RDD that there shouldn't be any problem. And that should be especially true if you heed the cautions mentioned by BTT. Good luck with it Lazerus and I know you'll let us know how it goes.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[waterdrop]

And another thing: I believe you were saying you were a bit worried about the whether the fish might be harmed or bothered by any messy debris kicked up from the organic soil substrate below your gravel/sand (whatever cap you used) and I just wanted to say that I doubt this would be anything to worry about. I suppose the only aspect to be worried about would be if you thought this particular soil was still putting out enough ammonia that it might cause a mini-cycle in the old filter you will be bringing over that's currently matched to your fish stock size (in the 10g or whatever the smaller one is.)

I just can't remember whether you still thought the soil was contributing any extra ammonia to the new 22g (some organic soils can contribute ammonia for up to a month or two at the beginning, especially if they were fertilized soils (usually you want organic but not fertilized.) I think our advice has been based on thinking that the only ammonia in the 22g is the ammonia you're adding for fishless cycling which will be gone once you do this switch, but this might not be the case if the soil is still contributing, is my thought.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Lazerus]

Hi, Yes, Waterdrop, my organic substrate definitely released ammonia at the very beginning for a week or two, but it seemed to dwindle away then, so thats grand.

Perhaps if I was to be a bit rough on a water change I might churn up the substrate and more would be released, but I'm usually fairly careful.

If it does still release ammonia, I have three filters to fight it...and two of those being mature, so I feel I should be okay.

Well either way, its done! Well, half of it anyway!!!

This morning I removed all of the water, right down to the gravel....there was only a few minor pools here and there. I cleaned the glass and the bodwood of any algae while I was at it.

So, the tank is topped up now with de-chlorinated water, and the filters are turned back on, and I'm just waiting for it to reach temperature.

I will leave it run for a while, maybe till about 4pm today (its 12:30pm now).

I'll test the water again...make any adjustments if necessary ie more water changes...then if I'm totally happy, I'll add the old filter and the fish.

Fingers crossed!!! God, I won't sleep at all this week with worry of waking up to a tank of dead fish....!! Please let this be ok.

 

[waterdrop]

I would think then that the soil has released the main of what its going to and you're going to be fine. Still don't see anything wrong with what you're doing. I don't know, maybe some of the experts will come along and give you some more fish transfer techniques for being extremely cautious but I suspect the fish are going to transfer over just fine with the precautions you're using.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Lazerus]

Well, the deed is done!

All fish are transferred over, with no losses from stress so far (i.e the Cardinals!) My god it was hard catching them though...bigger fish were easy, but the tetras and the oto's were a night mare!

Anyway that's that. Here's hoping I won't have any casualties tomorrow morning as often happens with transfers.

I'm going to go and close my fishless cycling thread. Thank you to everyone for your very valuable advice!

 

[waterdrop]

Great! Good news Laz!

Were you using the "big net, small net" method? Its easiest to have a really large net (well, you want to to fit into whatever top opening area so you wouldn't necessarily have to remove your tank hood every time..) that you hold at one end roughly and then use a smaller net to scare/chase the tetras in the general direction of the big one, which you can then make a little last second move with generally and they'll go right in, mostly chased by your little net.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Lazerus]

Ah yes, that would be easier all right....no I didn't...I used the chase the fish all around the tank and hope they'll go into the net method! ha,ha!

Anyway, they appear to be all alive this morning...haven't seen some of the tetras yet as the light hasn't turned on yet.

One thing I did notice though is that the fishes colours are really vibrant....they look really, really good. The Black substrate is obviously doing the trick.

I'll be checking the water a bit later. So, so far so good!

 

[waterdrop]