How Many In A 10 Gallon?

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cowgirluntamed

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I am getting ready to upgrade my 10 gallon guppy tank into a 50 gallon guppy tank...which will leave my 10 gallon tank without fish. I would really like to move my 3 glowlight tetras to the 10(they are in a 20 with 8 black neons, used to have more but had some die off), but was wondering how many I should add with them? I know they need at least 6, but I was wondering if I could do more than that in a 10(like 7 or 8 of them?)...or if I could do like 6 of the glowlights and 6 neon tetras in one tank? There are also 2 horned nerite snails in there for the algae clean up that will be staying. I don't want to overstock the tank. I have an aquaclear 20 HOB on it that will have 2 sponges on the bottom and then the ceramic media stuff it comes with. Any advice would be great! Thanks!
   Kristen
 
My suggestion for the glowlights is to leave them where they are, and if you want add a few more.  The 10g really will not provide sufficient space for a group of any of the common tetras, but I'll return to this and suggest suitable fish momentarily.  The glowlights though diminished in numbers, will probably be healthier (less stress) where they are with familiar fish.  However, you can up the numbers, and I'll deal with this now.
 
Shoaling fish live in groups of hundreds and there is an innate (inherent) need to have several of the species to avoid stress.  Six is the usual number seen, and there is a scientific reason for this I won't go into now, but it is always better to have as many as possible within the space.  It is known that the shoal provides security, but it can go far beyond this.  Depending upon the species, they may develop hierarchies, and some species have very strong social needs.  It is wise to keep in mind the citation from Dr. Loiselle in green in my signature block.
 
Sometimes adding "new" fish to an existing group can cause more problems that benefits.  Angelfish and discus, gourami, loaches come to mind.  But with the characins, most will be better with more so it is usually not an issue.
 
Now to the 10g.  There are a number of "nano" type fish that do well in small tanks, and a 10g is really a small space.  The "dwarf" species in the cyprinids (like the dwarf rasboras in the genus Boraras) are ideally suited.  The Ember Tetra works well.  The pygmy cory and dwarf cory are suited to a 10g.  Depending upon your water parameters, some of these might be worth considering.  Sometimes such fish are not regularly available, but when one is working within confines, it is best to wait for the best fit, so to speak.  I have waited years for some species.
 
Byron.
 
A betta would be nice in the 10 gallon.
 
Thanks Byron. I wasn't sure if it was a good idea or not. Though I'm not sure adding more to my 20 gallon is a good idea either. I know I have naturally hard well water, though after reading up on how to do a fishless cycle I've realized I've been testing wrong! I've been taking the water straight from the top so I'll try to get updated results soon. Currently in the 20 I have the three glowlights and the eight black neons, as well as a female bristlenose that's just over 3 inches now. Plus there are a bunch of pest snails that I can't seem to get the numbers down. It has a marineland biowheel 200 model HOB filter with just a cut to size blue/white sponge as well as a bag of national geographic biological filter media. I have some floating water sprite that seems to be starting to finally grow. Other than that just a couple of anubias. Would that even be OK to add a few more for them with that stock?

As for the 10,I can't do cories because I have gravel. Depending on my parameters would just regular neon tetras work or rasboras? I'll look up the others. The only fairly reliable source I have to get fish here is petsmart. If online but I've never done that before and didnt want to pay humongous shipping prices for just a few fish.

Anyway, I'll try to get updated test results tomorrow and get those posted. I did have a question on testing the kh and gh though, are how many drops I add to it the degrees I look at on the chart it comes with? Api liquid test kit. I looked at it again tonight and wasn't sure. Depending on the degrees it gives the range of ppms. Thanks for the help!
Kristen

Ps- I've thought about a betta before but it almost seems like it needs more complicated care! Could be wrong though. Lol.
 
 
Ps- I've thought about a betta before but it almost seems like it needs more complicated care! Could be wrong though. Lol.
As long as the tank is cycled, heated, filtered with a few plants including floating, and you do regular water changes, Like at least once a week 50%, Bettas are easy to care for.
 
If your tank is not filtered you need to change water more often.
 
Now regarding filtration Bettas in general do not like a lot of current in the tank, ( Short fined Bettas can tolerate some current ) , However you don't need a lot.  My tank is 70 litres and I have a 800 litre per hour canister filter running, But what I did was to slow the flow right down to 100 litres per hour, its so gentle the plants in my tank dont move, And my betta can easily just hover in the middle of my tank.
 
Now I know some people may say " but Nick you should be turning the water over at 5 or 6 times an hour." And I say " Something is better than nothing".
On a 10 gallon I would go with a small hang on back filter say 100 Litres per hour fill it with cycled media and turn it down to 50 litres per hour or less if needed.
 
I'll second the ember tetras if you wanted to get a shoal of something in there.  I have a nice shoal of ten in a planted tank and they're lovely.
 
Also perhaps give consideration to Panda cories.
 
I'd also agree with Nick about the Betta.  They are easy to care for and I think if it was me with that tank I'd get another Betta.
 
My aquaclear 20 says its rated at 120 gph. It is adjustable though but I don't know what the flow rate would be. Would my nerite snails be fine with a betta? I don't have any floating plants in this tank. Tried but they didn't survive with my led lighting(just a white light with a couple of blues). Would the driftwood have to come out of the tank if I got a betta? Still looking at options. I've got a while before I could do anything. But wanted to get the research down first!
Kristen
 
Drift wood is fine, as long as there's nothing the Betta may snag it's fins on.  I used to have some small pieces of driftwood in my Betta tank but I had to steal them to make a cave for my Red Tailed Shark :)
 
The filters I have with my Betta have directionally adjustable spray bars which I point into the sides of the tank to reduce the impact of any flow.  By the looks of your filter it's not possible to change flow direction so I have no idea how suitable that filter would be.
 
I also have drift wood in my tank lots of it for the Kuhli Loaches, But my Betta is short tail.
 
as long as there's nothing the Betta may snag it's fins on
Agreed.
 
 
The filters I have with my Betta have directionally adjustable spray bars which I
 
Here's a tip Drill extra holes in the spray bar and put a sponge baffle on the outside of the intake. It greatly reduces the speed of the water, Also I like the intake at 1 end of the tank and the outlet at the other, But thats just me.
 
NickAu said:
 
Here's a tip Drill extra holes in the spray bar and put a sponge baffle on the outside of the intake. It greatly reduces the speed of the water, Also I like the intake at 1 end of the tank and the outlet at the other, But thats just me.
 
The filters I use with my betta have flow control between the filter and spray bar which I have set as low as possible.
 
With my cannister filters I do the same as you, inlet and outlet at separate ends.  Strangely Eheim didn't promote this concept.
 
My aquaclear doesn't have a spray bar. It's just an HOB filter. From what I can tell there doesn't seem to be a lot of water movement except for right under where it comes out. I have it halfway set fro my guppies. I'm thinking of maybe going ahead and switching it over to sand after they are in a bigger tank. I'm doing that one in sand after all. Could I do the smaller cories and a betta? Or would that not set well with him or be good for the water? As for my drift wood...it does look a bit snaggy but I'm sure I could just move it away from the top and lay it down. Though I have an anubias Nana on it that I'd have to get loose...maybe...lol. My nerite snails love that piece of wood though. Maybe I could buy some fake floating plants until I got a better light for it. I may end up moving the filter to a different area to see what the flow does too. With the floating plants I had they always wanted to get stuck behind the flow of water coming out. Would a betta need an air stone? I have one in there currently but didn't know if they needed one. Could I "rescue" one from petsmart or do you think an online source would be better? (As for the substrate, would I change it to sand all at once or half and half? I'd probably wait until the guppies were out of the tank before I did anything like that.)
 
Sand is ideal for cories and in my experience the Betta leave cories alone.
 
Snap!  I also have an anubias Nana attached to some wood :)
 
By the sounds of it your filter would aerate the water just fine, and Betta are labyrinth fish so will breathe warm air from the surface - always leave a gap for them between the water and the lid for this purpose.   They are known to jump BTW, so a lid is preferable.
 
Personally, I'd remove all fish from the tank retain the tank water in a separate container having drained as much as possible and then change the substrate over before re-adding the water.
 
Several points have been mentioned in the latest posts.  I'll start with filtration.
 
Filtration should be geared to the intended fish.  Flow is the primary issue with this, obviously, but it should also be said that the idea of filtration having to be strong to ensure this or that turnover of water is another of those myths in this hobby.  Won't go into all thatdetail, but in a 10g I would suggest a simple sponge filter is more than adequate.  I have a single sponge Elite (made by Hagen) in my 10g, and a dual sponge Elite in both my 20g and 29g tanks.  Now, I have quiet fish in all these, and plants.
 
On the Betta, I consider this fish a stand alone, meaning, no other fish in the tank.  Betta are simply not community fish.  While some have luck (or say they have) with other fish, this is only asking for trouble.  Individual fish can differ from the expected norm in many species, but one should not rely on this occurring, but rather assume the norm.  Betta often take a strong dislike to other fish, whether due to colour or whatever.  But in reverse, many small fish that are otherwise peaceful will get quite nippy when placed in a small space with such a temptation as a long-fin Betta.  Either way, the targeted fish will be severely stressed, leading to poor health and "unhappy" fish, and that should not be our goal as aquarists.
 
To the 20g, with 8 black neons, 3 glowlights, and a bristlenose.  I would not hesitate to add another 4 glowlights.  This should cause no problems.  Be regular (once a week) with a 50% water change.  If you can get floating plants to grow, all the better.  A nice authentic aquascape for all these fish would be sand (or fine gravel), chunks of wood, branches, dried leaves (oak, maple, collected in the autumn from a woods or forest away from possible pollution), and floating plants.  Floating plants are the easiest to grow as they are close to the light, and can take in CO2 from the air which is four times faster than from water.  Floating plants for these reasons tend to be fast growing, and that means they are taking up more nutrients including ammonia/ammonium.  By the way, you may know it, but bristlenose must have real wood in the tank to graze; while they do not assimilate nutrients from the wood, they do need it for the proper functioning of their intestines.
 
To the 10g.  All corys will be better with sand, but the "dwarf" species demand it.  Changing to sand in a 10g is a simple matter though; I use play sand, very inexpensive, smooth, and authentic (appearance of the Quikrete play sand from Home Depot or Lowe's is similar to Amazonian sands).  I would not consider the common tetra/rasbora for this small a tank, but having said that, a group of 7 neons could probably work.  But I would still say the Ember would be better.  Aquascape could be as described above (mentioning this because it avoids plants except floating).
 
Panda Cory.  This is one cory that does need some water current.  They occur in mountain streams in Peru that are cooler and faster flowing than those where the majority of corys occur.  I have a group of five pandas in with close to 40 corys in my 115g tank, and the pandas regularly love to play tag right in the flow from the canister, and it is very strong at that end of this five-foot tank.  None of the other species ever do this.  So I would not consider pandas for these small tanks; currents like this will wreak havoc in a small tank.
 
Byron.
 
Thanks for the replies everybody! It's been a huge help. Now I at least know my options. :) I'd probably either go with a betta(along with my two nerite snails already in the tank(love them for algae cleanup, not as good as bristlenose but for tank size was a GREAT option to get them). Or, I'd probably end up going with some neon tetras. I can get those easier around here than the embers. Sucks not having a small regular fish store with good people! I do think, since I'm going to be doing the big 50 gallon in sand substrate, I will more than likely go ahead and do sand for the other two as well. I'm sure my bristlenose will appreciate it! Though I MUST have her castle(literally) in there as well. Lol. She's got two small pieces of driftwood and a bigger piece. I knew they needed it but wasn't sure exactly why so thanks for that Byron!
 
(Yes, Spots is a very spoiled fish...lol. She absolutely loves this castle. I had taken it out and put a smaller rock decoration(fake) in there before and she wouldn't have anything to do with it. And I bought some slate caves and she'd maybe hang out on top of one or in one very briefly. Then she started hiding from me.....But now that the castle is back she's coming out more and being brave again! Yay!)
 
Anyway, if I can get the substrate changed over in the 20 gallon, then I'd probably add new fish after everything settles down again. I do need to up my water change schedule and keep after it. Especially if I want to take care of a 50 gallon soon! Speaking of...one quick question for that tank as well...I plan on moving my 6 male guppies to a 50 gallon with 12 females. I wanted to put some zebra danios in the tank(was thinking 6...) to help with population control of the guppy fry. Is 6 ok or should I put in more? I also wanted to put in some bandit corys as well as a bristlenose in that tank.
 
Thanks so much for all the help guys. I'd rather be more informed than regretting quick and fast decisions!
 
Also, here are my test parameters for both tanks.
 
20 gallon tank
temperatue around 77F
ph- 8.2(stable)
Ammonia 0-0.25ppm
Nitrite- 0ppm
Nitrate- 10-20ppm
KH-13 degrees
GH-14 degrees
 
 
10 gallon tank
temperature around 77F
ph-8.2
Ammonia-0.25ppm
Nitrite-0ppm
Nitrate-5ppm
KH- 12 degrees
GH- 13 degrees
 
I'm not sure why the GH and KH of the tanks are different. Same water is used(well water from tap, no conditioner added as I don't have chlorines/chloramines)
 
Thanks again!
   Kristen
 
Sorry to crash your thread, but I saw the sand substrate come up.
A couple questions:
Do guppys do well with sand? I'm assuming ghost shrimp love it.
How do you pre clean the sand?
Will my gravel vacuum still work with water changes and substrate cleaning?
The best way to remove gravel and add sand is to put fish in another tank, drain and save water, well at least 70% or so, and remove plants and such, then scoop out gravel and replace with sand, add water, plants then fish back?

Thanks!
 

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