High Ammonia Reading And Three Dead Fish Following 90% Water Change Wi

[crmpicco]

As some will have remembered I done a 90% water change along with a 50% replacement of my Fluval filter media (foam pads) on Sunday to move my tank from a spare room to my living room. For reference, the thread is at:
 
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/417598-changing-filter-media-for-the-first-time/
 
Since this event I have lost 2 platies and one guppy over the course of 24-48 hours!
 
I have since carried out a water test to review my readings and they are as follows:
 
pH - 7.6
Ammonia - 3.0 ppm
Nitrite - 0 ppm
Nitrate - 2.0 ppm (2.0, not 20)
 
I am very disappointed to lose the three females that have produced a good amount of fry for me over the past few months, but now they are all gone and I am concerned about losing any more. My tank is well established and has been running for well over a year and I haven't added or lost a fish in well over a month now.
 
I understand the Ammonia level should be zero, so that is a red flag to me. Can anyone suggest what is best for me to do next as I am greatly concerned about the death of more of my fish.
 
Also, can anyone shed any light on why this sudden loss of fish has occured - is it a combination of a 50% media change and the 90% water change?

 

[davemings]

Was the filter still running in a bucket or something while you moved the tank and did you disturb the substrate when you moved it?

 

[crmpicco]

Was the filter still running in a bucket or something while you moved the tank and did you disturb the substrate when you moved it?

 
Hi there,
 
No the filter wasn't running at all. The media and the housing were still floating around in the 10% of the water that was left. The filter unit itself was disconnected from the mains and I took that downstairs and plugged it in afterwards.
 
Like I say I done a 90% water change and thoroughly cleaned the gravel, removing an absolute power of waste. So yes, you could say I certainly disturbed the substrate.
 
Is that a problem? My intention was to give the tank a proper clean of waste when I was moving it.
 
Thanks.

 

[davemings]

If your filter dried out you will have killed some of the bacteria inside it. The substrate also contains a lot of useful bacteria but if you've stirred it up you may have cuased an ammonia spike. Is your water clear or cloudy?
 
I'd do another water change. If you can, get yourself some Ammo Lock or Seachem Prime, both of these will help to detoxify the ammonia.

 

[crmpicco]

If your filter dried out you will have killed some of the bacteria inside it. The substrate also contains a lot of useful bacteria but if you've stirred it up you may have cuased an ammonia spike. Is your water clear or cloudy?
 
I'd do another water change. If you can, get yourself some Ammo Lock or Seachem Prime, both of these will help to detoxify the ammonia.

The filter was definitely still in the water so it would have been as wet as it always was should I never have moved the tank.

The water was very cloudy once I had done the 90% water change and for about 12 hours after. I always do a gravel clean when I do a water change, but I don't often stir too much. It like to remove some of the waste as I believe it shouldn't be in there - but I don't disturb too much of the substrate when doing a normal clean.

So you think the excessive stirring of the gravel could have caused the ammonia spike?

I'll definitely get some Ammo Lock, or Ammonia Remover (I've had that before, but ran out) and will do a 25-30% water change.

Would you say that the Ammonia spike is more than likely the cause of the three deaths?

 

[davemings]

Can't say for sure. Were the fish at the top of the tank before they died?

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

Unless your tank pH is less than ~7.1 and the temp is significantly <24C, an ammonia reading of 3ppm is considered toxic, you should be doing a ~95% water change ASAP (not a 25-30% change with an "ammo-lock" type product).
 
 http/dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html#ammonia3ppm

 

[crmpicco]

Can't say for sure. Were the fish at the top of the tank before they died?

 
Yes, the vast majority of the fish were at the top of the tank and certainly the three that have died so far were all at the top. Would that have been due to the ammonia or something else?
 

Unless your tank pH is less than ~7.1 and the temp is significantly <24C, an ammonia reading of 3ppm is considered toxic, you should be doing a ~95% water change ASAP (not a 25-30% change with an "ammo-lock" type product).
 
 http/dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html#ammonia3ppm

 
I always keep my heater at a temperature of 25C. I'll be doing a large water change when I get in from work tonight.

 

[the_lock_man]

What Goat said to you is correct.
 
I suspect that a lot of your bacteria colonies were on the foam pads that you changed. Did you do that because they were falling apart, or because the manufacturers told you to?

 

[crmpicco]

What Goat said to you is correct.
 
I suspect that a lot of your bacteria colonies were on the foam pads that you changed. Did you do that because they were falling apart, or because the manufacturers told you to?

 
So would they have been at the top due to the ammonia spike?
 
One of the foam pads is in top condition, although discoloured as you'd expect, but the other one was in terrible condition and was literally falling apart. So I only changed one of them. If that is part of the reason that the fish died then i'm certainly in no hurry to do the other one.

 

[the_lock_man]

If the foam was falling apart, then it was right to change it, but if you reckon this was half of your filter media, then it's more than likely that this is also where the bacteria were, so yes, I would say that's probably part of what caused the spike. The bacteria also live on the gravel, so if what was the top surface of gravel gets hidden, any bacteria there stops working too. Double whammy.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Depending upon whom you want to believe in terms of what levels of NH3 becomes harmful to fish, the numbers would be more like a pH of 7.3 and a temp of about 80F on the low end to 7.5 and 75F on the upper. The last number is based on the Merck Veterinary manual suggestion of .05 ppm.
 
I saw no nitrite readings, and this can suffocate fish.
 
As for the cause it is clear that you hit tank with a combination of punches. The foam certainly contained good bacteria but then so did the gravel. The bacteria in one's substrate is concentrated near the surface, so turning the substrate over can bury the bacteria where it doesn't get food etc. as well. Finally, stirring up the substrate can release junk into the water which will also produce ammonia.
 
It looks like you had all three issues hit at once. The good news, if there is some, is that you did not wipe out all the bacteria by any means and the colonies should be able to recover in short order.
 
As a word of advice. The way nitrite works to suffocate fish can be mitigated in an emergency by adding salt to the water. The chloride binds to the same places the nitrite would. When the salt binds to these sites, the nitrite can't. Of course salt can cause other issues as it changes the TDS and many fish and plants do not handle it. It is important is one uses salt in this fashion that it be removed from the water when it has served its purpose. The way to remove it is via water change.

 

[the_lock_man]

TTA, I don't want to derail this thread, but I'd like to clarify something about your last paragraph - I'm going to start a new thread in Science, OK?

 

[davemings]

Unless your tank pH is less than ~7.1 and the temp is significantly <24C, an ammonia reading of 3ppm is considered toxic, you should be doing a ~95% water change ASAP (not a 25-30% change with an "ammo-lock" type product).
 
 http/dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html#ammonia3ppm

 
Yes the water change should be as large as possible but there is nothing wrong in doing this in conjunction with using Prime etc