Help With My Freshwater Moray Eel(feeding

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pbase5583

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I have 2 freshwater moray eels in seperate tanks. at night timje they swim around i think they are hungry. Ive had my smaller one 10" for 2 ish weeks and i have not seen him eat. i try brineshrimp and feeders but nothing. i put it in his hole( he is by himself with a pregnant cichlid who doesnt eat because she is pregnant in a 10 gallon breeder tank. just to see if i can get him to eat without the cichlids stealing his food. My larger one in the photos below is 1 inch thick and 1.5 feet long(monster eel) and he isnt eating either. should i stop brine shrimp and try bloodworms or silversides? the feeders arent doing much but i dont know what else to try? i want these badass eels to survive



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nmonks

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What's the salinity? Probably too low if Julidochromis are living alongside it.

Up the salinity to around SG 1.005 to 1.010. He'll start feeding then.

Trust me, it's astonishing how common this problem is. People buy brackish water morays, keep them in freshwater or near-freshwater conditions, and the eel stops feeding. Raise the salinity, and the eel begins to feed again.

Why are you using "feeders"? Unless these are home-bred, gut-loaded livebearers, feeders are not only expensive but dangerous (parasites) and a common cause of malnutrition (thiaminase and fat). These morays hunt by smell, primarily at night, and readily take cockles and tilapia fillet, two excellent foods easily bought fresh or frozen. In smaller amounts you can use mussels and prawns, but as these contain thiaminase, they shouldn't be used more often than once or twice a week.

Cheers, Neale
 

roddy

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Totally agree with what Neale is saying about salinity. I have one which was being kept in fresh water and eating very little. When I got it home it went in with the monos and T Chatareus which I keep at about 1.010 ish and he immediately looked happier. One word of warning, the first evening he was out and happily ate two large prawns while I was feeding the others but then went on to eat a sleeper goby during the night, by looks of it would have been similar size diff with your cichlid and I had assumed was too big for him to bother. Have forgiven him as he is out and about as soon as he gets a hint of food and interaction with the monos is fun to watch, great fish.
 
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pbase5583

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Totally agree with what Neale is saying about salinity. I have one which was being kept in fresh water and eating very little. When I got it home it went in with the monos and T Chatareus which I keep at about 1.010 ish and he immediately looked happier. One word of warning, the first evening he was out and happily ate two large prawns while I was feeding the others but then went on to eat a sleeper goby during the night, by looks of it would have been similar size diff with your cichlid and I had assumed was too big for him to bother. Have forgiven him as he is out and about as soon as he gets a hint of food and interaction with the monos is fun to watch, great fish.



the salinity is 1.005
 

nmonks

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I find that hard to believe if the Julidochromis is still alive. What other fish are living there? If it's a list of freshwater fish like the cichlid, then the water simply can't be as salty as SG 1.005 at 25 C/77 F.

Let's remind ourselves that SG 1.005 is the specific gravity not the salinity, and that hydrometers aren't especially accurate (at least, not at the prices aquarists pay for them) and that refractometers, unless calibrated carefully, are no more accurate. When we say "SG 1.005" what we actually mean is a specific gravity of 1.005 at 25 C, and that's simply a proxy for a salinity of 9 grammes per litre of water.

Go make up some water now. Stir in 9 grammes of (dry) marine aquarium salt mix into 1 litre of water. Make sure the temperature is 25 C. Then use your hydrometer. What specific gravity do you get? Since the salinity will be right if done this way, if the specific gravity seems wrong, then the problem is with the hydrometer.

In any case, the simple fact you have a salt-intolerant fish like Julidochromis in this aquarium proves salinity is too low. Up the salinity, remove the freshwater fish, and the moray will settle down and feed. Alternatively, move the moray into a marine aquarium if you have one -- it'll be perfectly happy there.

Cheers, Neale

the salinity is 1.005
 
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pbase5583

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its a 65 gallon set up. my salinity from my hydrometer was at 1.005 and then i just did a water change and raised it to 1.010. i have the big eel in a 65 gallon tank with pH at 8.2 african cichlids(mbuna) which are 1-3 inches each and arent aggresive as they should be. about 18 of them. and a 5 inch fugu puffer. i just tried bloodworms and nothing. i use cichlid lake salt because that was recommendedto me for cichlids at my LFS as well as my cichlid buffer. im a regular there and they know of my set up and all. they recommended me a fugu puffer and the eel. i bought the second eel because its bigger and more badass and im not having anyluck with mine. the water conditions are perfect(no ammonia or nitrite or nitrate). they said feeders would be a good kickstart for them.
 
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pbase5583

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and @nmonks its an african yellow lab, they need salt just like the eel. i know better than s.a cichlids, and if its mouthbrooding wouldnt you know that its african?
 

HX67

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Ummm...
Your LFS and you think lake salt equals marine salt?

You think lake cichlids would be happy living in a brackish river delta?
You think your G. tile would be happy living in lake Malawi?

I think not.

My G. tile would take bloodworms as an insult...
Morays are opportunistic feeders, taking large prey (fitting the size of the specimen) and often feeding irregularly. Try some decent sized pieces of fish or shrimp/crayfish to wake him up with.
Also, my personal experience leads me to believe that G tile is not the most effective predator. I have kept them with bumblebee gobies. No gobies disappeared, ever.
So live feeder fish are not the way to go, in my opinion.
But with frozen shrimps and even better, ample sized fish fillets G. tile is the man, just as Mr Monks suggests earlier.
 
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pbase5583

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If you want to ask rhetorical questions then go talk to yourself because I do not want to hear them. I was RECOMMENDED this and whenever i go in they are usually knowledgeable about things like this. Don't even teply if this is how you reply.
 

HX67

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I stand corrected.
Thanks for the note.

I hope your fish are well.
 

nmonks

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Quite right, the cichlid in the first photo isn't a Julidochromis. I didn't look closely enough. But it isn't a Yellow Lab (Labidochromis caeruleus) either! For one thing, it has black stripes along its body, so can't possibly be a Yellow Lab. The photo is a bit grainy, but I think it's a Melanochromis auratus.

In any case, it ABSOLUTELY, 100% doesn't want or need marine aquarium salt. But the Moray does. These fish are fundamentally incompatible, and if your pet shop wants to argue about this, bring them here to the forum or have them e-mail me. They may recognise my name from the magazines or my Brackish Water Fishes book for TFH. Brackish water stuff is my speciality.

Look, your Moray isn't eating because it's in the wrong conditions. It must have an aquarium with marine aquarium salt dosed at not less than 9 grammes/litre (about SG 1.005). The use of Rift Valley cichlid salt is completely and utterly irrelevant here.

Indeed, use of marine aquarium salt is very likely harmful to Rift Valley cichlids -- it's commonly associated with something called Malawi Bloat.

Hope this helps, Neale

PS. Do try and read a bit more about cichlids. "African Cichlids" for example is pretty meaningless in aquarium terms. Some African cichlids live in the Rift Valley lakes and like hard, alkaline water, but other species come from more soft water rivers like the Congo and Niger, and others come from very soft and acidic waters in rainforests. A few are even brackish water specialists. Any aquarium shop that has a section labelled "African Cichlids" should be approached with caution. Make sure YOU know the difference between what, say, Jewel Cichlids need and what you'd need to provide Mbuna.

Likewise, "mouthbrooders" doesn't mean much of anything so far as aquarium care goes. Yes, Mbuna are mouthbrooders, but so are many of the soft water geophagine cichlids from South America and so are a few soft water rainforest cichlids from West Africa like the famous Mouthbrooding Krib, Chromidotilapia guentheri. So anyone who tells you all mouthbrooders "need salt in their water" is talking rubbish.
 

roddy

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Sort of disappointed in this thread as was interested and that fact I am still replying to it now.

One of the reasons I liked this forum was that the answers are, on the whole useful, and not simply "you can't keep three neons in less than a swimming pool you fool" type thing. Ok so it's not a Julidochromis, did notice that but it was not relevant to the question. It was not a cichlid (and certainly not a yellow lab!!) that should be in the salinity that was being talked about, even an orange chromide (which is brackish) would be beginning to be unhappy at the levels a moray is best suited too.

The question was about getting the moray to feed. The answer is simply, up the salinity and give it something to get it's gob round. Mine would not look at bloodworms but happily choke on a fish/prawn/worm almost too big to go down ... but it would! Agree they are not the most expert hunters but certainly wouldn't trust them with small fish. My monos show him respect when he's out .. well till he has something in his mouth and then they will happily try and take it from him :lol:

What's the point in being on a forum if not up for suggestions to help and not simply have pop. Never met Neale but always though he seems to know his stuff and certainly up to discuss, what more can you want on this sort of thing.

Sorry rant over, always said wouldn't. Hope the morays start feeding, they are great :good:
 

roddy

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Sort of disappointed in this thread as was interested and that fact I am still replying to it now.

One of the reasons I liked this forum was that the answers are, on the whole useful, and not simply "you can't keep three neons in less than a swimming pool you fool" type thing. Ok so it's not a Julidochromis, did notice that but it was not relevant to the question. It was not a cichlid (and certainly not a yellow lab!!) that should be in the salinity that was being talked about, even an orange chromide (which is brackish) would be beginning to be unhappy at the levels a moray is best suited too.

The question was about getting the moray to feed. The answer is simply, up the salinity and give it something to get it's gob round. Mine would not look at bloodworms but happily choke on a fish/prawn/worm almost too big to go down ... but it would! Agree they are not the most expert hunters but certainly wouldn't trust them with small fish. My monos show him respect when he's out .. well till he has something in his mouth and then they will happily try and take it from him :lol:

What's the point in being on a forum if not up for suggestions to help and not simply have pop, you have been recommended what to do by the shop but it's not working, save the moray and listen. Never met Neale but always though he seems to know his stuff and certainly up to discuss, what more can you want from being on this sort of thing?

Sorry rant over, always said wouldn't. Hope the morays start feeding, they are great :good:
 
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pbase5583

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my yellow lab isnt in the photo. i have the small eel(which isnt in the photo) in a 10 gallon breeder with my mouthbrooding yellow lab)
 
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pbase5583

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yea thanks for the advice everybody, and nobody wants to argue. they had them all together and I thought this is what would finish my tank, an eel and fugu puffer.



Quick questions. they said my fugu puffer will get 2' big but i highly doubtthat. and the only thing online i could find was about eating them. he has neon orange.

and if it doesnt work i can't make it work so they will be rehomed?
 

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