Help! Need To Know What I Need To Set Up Tank!

[lesleyanndunn]

I have been keeping tropical fish for couple years now with no real problems. I have been given a juwel 4ft tank and stand with an internal filter and built in heater, and lights built into the lid. its also got internal background siliconed into the back of the tank.

instead of another tropical tank, we would really love to set this up as a marine tank with live rock, sand and some fish and a clean up crew (think thats right )

have been trying to read up on external filters, protein skimmers etc.. but the more i read the more the mind boggles

we would like to change the lighting system to the overhead arcadia lighting system? (think that right!)

so any advice most welcome!

about live rock/sand/filters/skimmers/lighting/ tank cycling etc

basically how i go from an empty tank and in stages get to a marine set up

 

[dilbert]

The main question is if you would like corals and similar sessile invertebrates that demand much or very much light.

Then the next question about filtering boils down mainly how your tank will be stocked. If it would have relatively few fish then you could rely only on the live rock plus powerheads as filter system.

Refugium is a smaller tank connected to the main tank that also helps keeping nitrates and phosphates down by having a big piece of special algae in it eating up everything so your main stays clear.

Basically you can add as many filter systems you want. The pros and cons are difficult to foresee as there are so many different conditions.

I would first setup the live rock. Much also depends on space. Skimmers external or hanging on the back etc. Best thing is to stay flexible as long as your stocking list isn't complete.

 

[SkiFletch]

Agreed, unfortunately the first question one must ask is not "what hardware do I need" but rather, "what livestock do I desire to keep". Saltwater aquaria often have very specific and demanding requirements which often require some hardware. Still others require different hardware, and some require next to nothing .

So I must ask, would you like a Fish Only (FO) system? Fish Only with Live Rock (FOWLR), a predatory tank, or a full blown reef system with corals, inverts, etc?

 

[lesleyanndunn]

im aiming towards fish only with live rock. i have no idea on what type of fish,

we were thinking of clown fish, and prob some peaceful community type fish.

some pointers in the right directions what type of fish and how many would be good as well

we want to get the tank sorted and cycled, and make sure everything is running soundly before attempting any fish

 

[dilbert]

There are different approaches, too.

With a larger tank like yours there are many options:
- a species tank with otherwise incompatible or difficult to mix fish
- a predatory fish tank
- the typical reef community tank

So the first questions now:
- species only (find one and stay with it) or community (the typical compatibility issues) tank
- thin or deep sandbed (many species are burrowing so they need a deep sandbed)
- are you willing to accept special feeding requirements (many don't eat flakes, some will need expensive shrimps and mussels )

There are some threads in the "saltwater fish" section.

Helpful are also sites like

[URL="http/www.aquaticlifedirect.co.uk/Fish/SaltwaterAndMarineFish/"]http/www.aquaticlifedirect.co.uk/Fish/Sa...rAndMarineFish/[/URL]

or

[URL="http/www.liveaquaria.com/product/categ.cfm?pCatId=15"]http/www.liveaquaria.com/product/categ.cfm?pCatId=15[/URL]

They give you an overview. The descriptions are not very detailed but if you have found something interesting you can search further elsewhere.

A more detailed Web site is this one for the cowfish for example:

[URL="http/www.cowfishes.com/"]http/www.cowfishes.com/[/URL]

 

[lesleyanndunn]

hi thanks for answers, more complicated than i ever thought

but am still wanting a marine tank, not put off yet

i would like a typical reef community tank, providing a deep sandbed for any burrowerers

also am willing to provide varied food, as long as not too exotic lol

have looked up the links provided, thanks for them

seen the following for community tanks?

clownfish
dwarf angelfish
dottyback fish
anglers
chromis
cardinal fish

are these are the kind i should be starting off with?

also to start off with live rock, should i go to lfs for this or source somewere else? and roughly how much would i need to my tank?
tank measurements are 4ft x 1.5 ft x 1.5 ft

 

[dilbert]

if you would buy the suggested amount of liv rock, you would need for 68 US gallons that you have about 68 lbs of live rock what would be quite expensive.

That suggestion is for a reef tank. Now it depends how much fish you will have. Depending on that you could go with less live rock or add some other filters, skimmers and the like. As I said best thing is to stay flexible but much depends on the space and the room where the tank is. You could add the first fish and look how the tank is coping with that bioload. If you spot problems and only then you could add additional devices.

I'm not an expert on that as I have only a small tank with two fish already fully stocked.

For the fish list you could open another thread in "saltwater fish". Your list comprises pretty much what most people have so you should get plenty of replies.

Regarding the live rock it's the best to get it from an LFS if and only if they stock their live rock in fully established tanks and if you can get it home relatively quickly, i.e. 30 minutes or so. Then you'll have almost no die-off and your tank would already have been cycled. Just measure your water parameters over a few days to be entirely sure and you would be ready.

In all other cases it might be the price what matters but from an LFS you normally can select what pieces you want. For a FOWLR tank maybe not that much important as some of the fish - if not reef-safe - will nibble off some interesting hitch-hikers anyhow.

Basically, you prepare your saltwater, install the powerheads for moving water with oxygen through the porous live rock (that is your base filter), add live rock and sand, wait until the sand settles, check your water parameters.

If everything is fine, add your first fish. Within a few weaks almost everyone gets a brown algae bloom that will vanish in a few weeks later by itself. Maybe you'll get a cyanobacteria (red slime algae) outbreak. But that is nothing to worry about. Actually, with fish only, you are more flexible with all methods to cope with such problems.

 

[SkiFletch]

clownfish
dwarf angelfish
dottyback fish
anglers
chromis
cardinal fish

Only one problem I see with that list, anglers (aka frogfish) are best kept in species-only tanks . Other good considerations are gobies, wrasses, and maybe even a yellow tang.

 

[lesleyanndunn]

oh we thought a yellow tang would be too big for our tank and maybe cause some probs!

partner will be pleased if we could put one in as he likes them!

a wee question: when putting in live rock with the sand to cycle tank, does it all need to go in at the same time? or can you put say half in to cycle and then the other half a week later?

or not best work that way? and we read that we can use playsand from argos cos cheaper? or that not a good alternative?

 

[dilbert]

Not entirely sure about the playsand. It would be considerably cheaper as the aragonite sand (5 lbs if I remember aright) cost me about £ 16 only to cover my small tank with 1/2 to 1/3 of sand.

Generally, that sand is also there to maintain alkanity and ph. And maybe that playsand has too much silicates that lets the brown algae bloom longer and stronger. But if it's really an issue you could ask that in a single thread to get more attention.

You can put everything in separately with no regard to any time scales. The only thing to be aware is that the sand will make the water cloudy for about two days or so.

Most people put the live rock onto the already established sand. I did it the other way around. Only when you make the sandbed deeper than you should have the live rock first in. That is to give it more stability for burrowing creatures as otherwise they could topple a rock.

You can always add more live rock even years later. Some people see a quarantine issue as with every live added. Adding sand later I don't know as the fish would spend a day or two in a sandstorm.

 

[lesleyanndunn]

we were dubious when reading about the playsand, didnt think it would be suitable either!

looking for some advice on good protein skimmers and what kind of powerheads and how many?

thanks for all advice

 

[dilbert]

Playsand is fine for many vivariums probably freshwater, too, only marine I'm unsure.

I got three Maxi-Jet MJ500. They are silent, removable impeller easy to clean, simple and fine-meshed inlet filter cap. They have more powerful one, too.

For a FOWLR you don't need much chaotic much. But at least two just in case one stops working.

 

[SkiFletch]

do the vinegar test on the playsand . Put playsand in vinegar, wait. If the sand is still bubbling after a minute, it's made of calcium carbonate and suitable. If it stops bubbling, its silica sand and not very advisable.

 

[lesleyanndunn]

we went to lfs and talked live rock and sand prices there, so hopefully next week we are getting them!

we need to get an RO unit and getting abit confused

looking at them on the net and theres 2nd hand ones that are cheaper and other sites new and bit more expensive...

are they hard to plumb in without instructions? and do we need to buy a system that has a tank included?

 

[SkiFletch]

Depends, do you have a washer/dryer in the basement? Simple to plumb off that. No volume tank is needed