Help Me Save My Plec Please :(

[CameraGeek]

Hi everyone,

I have a topic going already but things have developed so I'm coming for some quick advice please..

My garra rufa started behaving strangly a few days ago and I put it down to a spike in the ammonia with some advice from the guys here. 50% water change done ... on Friday he sadly developed dropsy and blew up like a pine-cone. I isolated him and started myxazin treatment Friday and did a further 30% water change yesterday and continued treatment. This afternoon he did die. I even tried peas but by the time I realised what was going on he wasn't eating anymore.

The emergency now is my 3month old albino bristlenose plec is starting similar behaviour. He's suddenly resting a lot and sitting mainly under the heater. He's not even moving when we go near the tank and usually he's very shy and darts away. He didn't even look at peas this morning which usually are a fav.

What do you suggest I do? Carry on with the myxazin (3rd dose due now)? Another water change?? Maybe use some ammolock? I love my plec and a don't want to loose him. My rufa was a proper little character and without just one of them the tank won't be the same. Without both it'll be rubbish.

All the other fish seem fine... 4x giant danios, 1x rainbow fish, 2x angel fish, 6x widow tetra, 1x golden gourami and 2x silver sharks.

Tank stats as follows:

96litre
Been running for just over two months - got set-up on eBay cleaned it all and used mature water from my 4yr old tank
Eheim external filter (additional internal ordered two days ago to help with ammonia spikes)
Carbon changed 3weeks ago
Temp 77°
Nitrite 0
Ammonia 0 - 0.25
PH 7.6
Nitrate 0 - really worried about this.. reading 24hrs ago was 10 - is this my issue???

Please help - from a newbie to bigger set-ups!!!

 

[DanTheFishMan11]

you are really overstocked but i cant really help with the plec problem but ask anyone you are hugely overstocked!

 

[CameraGeek]

you are really overstocked but i cant really help with the plec problem but ask anyone you are hugely overstocked!

Really??? There is tons of room in this tank. I know eventually I'll have to get a bigger tank for this lot as some will get big but at the moment they are all diddy no one in here is bigger than 2" except the gourami who's a bit bigger | my LFS has been advising with the stocking.

Jo x

 

[snazy]

I am really sorry for your fish. It's horrible watch them die.

First, make sure there is no ammonia in the tank by doing water changes. If they lived in poor water conditions, the stress may have caused them to developed either parasitic or bacterial infection that caused the symptoms you observed. Is your filter adequate for the size of the tank and fish in it? Nitrate is 0, so your tank is not cycled at all, which seems to be the cause of the stress, and the sickness. Start doing large water changes everyday till the tank is cycled(could take weeks).
Cycled tank should read ammonia-0, nitrit-0, nitrate-way above 0 at all times.

All you can do now is remove the cause of the stress. Dropsy is not a sickness, it is a symptom of either parasites, bacteria or both which your fish were succeptible because of poor water conditions. If you don't know what it is, and you treat with the wrong meds, it will be even worse.

If you can get some mature filter media from the LFS or someone with a tank it will help your cycle. For the type of fish you have you need very good filtration so do check out what the water flow per hour is for your filter as you may need a higher rated, or just add another one.

 

[CameraGeek]

I am really sorry for your fish. It's horrible watch them die.

First, make sure there is no ammonia in the tank by doing water changes. If they lived in poor water conditions, the stress may have caused them to developed either parasitic or bacterial infection that caused the symptoms you observed. Is your filter adequate for the size of the tank and fish in it? Nitrate is 0, so your tank is not cycled at all, which seems to be the cause of the stress, and the sickness. Start doing large water changes everyday till the tank is cycled(could take weeks).
Cycled tank should read ammonia-0, nitrit-0, nitrate-way above 0 at all times.

All you can do now is remove the cause of the stress. Dropsy is not a sickness, it is a symptom of either parasites, bacteria or both which your fish were succeptible because of poor water conditions. If you don't know what it is, and you treat with the wrong meds, it will be even worse.

If you can get some mature filter media from the LFS or someone with a tank it will help your cycle. For the type of fish you have you need very good filtration so do check out what the water flow per hour is for your filter as you may need a higher rated, or just add another one.

Thanks for being understanding Snazy, i was concerned about the nitrate so did another test. It's still 20 I couldn't have shaken the bottle hard enough! (PHEW) I'll do another water change now, what else would you recommend, some Ammolock and maybe continue with the myxazin just incase I'm really not good at diagnosing yet!? Carbon is obviously out right now as I've been treating for 48hrs.
Filter is an eheim 2232 it's external and huge. I'm hoping the internal I purchased will arrive tomoro. The flow rate on the website is 400LPH it's pretty strong. My partner thinks it is the filter as its 2nd hand. I did clean everything and replaced carbon and sponges etc..??

As the other guy thinks my tank is overstocked would u recommend I move some out?? I have a 20litre set up but its only a fortnight old. It's got plant and driftwood in and stats are:
Nitrite 1
Nitrate 40
Amm 0
Ph 7.6

I wouldn't like to put anything in it right now

Sorry for all the questions!!!

Jo x

 

[snazy]

What is your current stocking? What is the rating of water flow per hour for the filter? With a 100L tank with plecos in it you need at least 10 times the filter flow per hour(minimum 1000L/H)

As for treating, I can't tell really. Ammonia+meds at the same time cause a lot of stress. The ammolock may help a little but you never know when it will stop working in your water as it's active for a period of time only. Keep the ammonia 0 or non-toxic as with this in the water the fish can't recover regardless, and if you've started medicating then keep it up and observe if it helps.

 

[CameraGeek]

What is your current stocking? What is the rating of water flow per hour for the filter? With a 100L tank with plecos in it you need at least 10 times the filter flow per hour(minimum 1000L/H)

As for treating, I can't tell really. Ammonia+meds at the same time cause a lot of stress. The ammolock may help a little but you never know when it will stop working in your water as it's active for a period of time only. Keep the ammonia 0 or non-toxic as with this in the water the fish can't recover regardless, and if you've started medicating then keep it up and observe if it helps.

Stocking in my first post. LPH 400 with the eheim external.

I didn't know about the LPH needing to be so high!!! I've moved the plec to my smaller tank for now, the stats are perfect in there so hopefully he'll recover. I'm down to my LFS first thing to get a much bigger internal than I've ordered and hope that does the trick. I'll keep doing the water changes and stop the medication as I've moved him. I'll add some Ammolock. Once I get it sorted I'll move him back, he should be fine in the 55ltr, there's a leopard in there but he's a newbie too, only about 6months old, they shouldn't bother each other.

Thank you so much. Glad I've found this forum, where people are happy to help us newbies. It does get mind boggling in the aquatic centres when everyone says something different!!!

Jo x

 

[snazy]

Higher filtration is always better and is essential for well stocked tanks. Keep in mind too that the manufacturers rating is based on the filter empty, so in reality a 400L/H could be no more than probably 200-250L/H. Get better filtration, make sure you put the old sponges in the new filter!!!

I did clean everything and replaced carbon and sponges etc..??

Did you replace the old sponges/media? The sponges should never be replaced until they fall appart. Even if you get a new filter, put the old sponges into the new filter. After the tank has cycled properly(enough bacteria on the sponges to always keep ammonia,nitrite at 0), then once a month just slightly shake them in old tank water to get the big pieces of debris out and then put them back

 

[Aquascaper]

Keep in mind too that the manufacturers rating is based on the filter empty, so in reality a 400L/H could be no more than probably 200-250L/H.

The OP said it was an Eheim therefore the 400lph includes media....still too low but worth mentioning.

 

[CameraGeek]

Keep in mind too that the manufacturers rating is based on the filter empty, so in reality a 400L/H could be no more than probably 200-250L/H.

The OP said it was an Eheim therefore the 400lph includes media....still too low but worth mentioning.

I put new sponges in when I set it up as I had no idea what the keeper was like before and how long the sponges had been dry. I've added another filter tonight, both running on full and I'm now up to 720LPH... there wasn't any bigger filters that would fit in my tank, this one only just fits!! Ive also bought the water from the LFS and done 50% water changes this evening rathe than using my tap water. My plec is very happy in the new tank. I will leave him in there now until the water is perfection in the 100litre.

 

[snazy]

Keep up with water changes until the tank is cycled properly, then you'll have no troubles
As for the water from the LFS, I wouldn't go that route myself(What type of water?) It will mess up your Ph and mineral content and if you don't do the same ratio everytime you do a water change, it will mess up with the Ph and mineral content the fish are used to and can stress your fish, and even kill them.

 

[CameraGeek]

Keep up with water changes until the tank is cycled properly, then you'll have no troubles
As for the water from the LFS, I wouldn't go that route myself(What type of water?) It will mess up your Ph and mineral content and if you don't do the same ratio everytime you do a water change, it will mess up with the Ph and mineral content the fish are used to and can stress your fish, and even kill them.

It's RO water. I decided not to use it completely and did a 50/50 ratio with water changes. New filter been in place for 48hrs now. Ammonia still 0-0.25 but I'm guessing it will take a few days to get it back to 0. I've done a 30% water change today and while all the fish are fine I'll do that every other day until the readings are perfect. I don't think I'll buy the RO again as I'm happy doing my water changes as I always have done.

Just one thing that's happening now, the fish seem to LOVE the flow of the new filter and are congregating behind it, I mean the whole tank!! It's only the golden gourami who's swimming in the main tank and every time a Danio or angel pop out he's starting to get territorial. I've always had a large group of plants for hiding at one end of the tank and that's where I put the new filter. I decided to spread them out this afternoon and it's made no difference. The filter is currently on max as I want it to get the job done, do you think I should turn it down or will the fish eventually get used to the new flow and come back to the main tank?! I'm just concerned that the golden gourami is going to get to big for his boots!!

BTW Plec still super happy in the small tank

Jo x