Help - Feeding Neons & Cycling

[poveyt]

Hi
I have just been forced into the world of fish keeping after my in-laws gave a tank (10 gal) to my 6 year old daughter! Around 5 days after I had set it up with heater working, mechanical filter running, "Cycle" added to the water, and four plants in the tank, one of her uncles gave her 4 neons to go with the tank! Anyway, we are now at 3 neons and unless I get help quickly, that number may fall again.

What I know:
- Cycling is likely to be happening: I did an ammonia test yesterday and it is just in the safe region, did a 10% water change today (yes - I have de-clorinated the water using "Aqua-Pure").
- Neons are not the best fish to cycle with (in fact fish-less cycling is best, but see above!)
- Over-feeding is bad in the early stages

What I need to know:
- How do I feed neons (especially ones that sit in the back bottom corner)? I have added around 5 flakes over the past 36 hours and around 1 flake has been eaten.
- What else should I be doing! Crash course in fish-keeping this week but still a beginner (trying to stop relatives sending more fish!)

Cheers
Tim

 

[dwarfgourami]

Hi Tim and welcome to the forum and to the wonderful world of fishkeeping! It sounds like you're learning very quickly.

Getting your relatives fishtrained is obviously the first step- I am sure you will get that under control

Step two is what you are doing- keep testing the water for ammonia and nitrites, do a partial water change whenever the levels of either go over 0.5 ppm.

Step 3 is do not overfeed. It is about 30 years since I kept neons, but trying to visualise them- well, my guppies eat 2-3 flakes a day, and neons are both smaller and less greedy, so 5 flakes a day between the 3 sounds perfectly adequate, in fact it might be better to feed rather less, and maybe shared out in smaller portions. If you are struggling with the water stats you could cut it down to every other day. To make it easier for them, try crushing the flakes into smaller pieces.

Step 4. Do not add any more fish until the cycle is finished, so probably not for the first weeks or so of running the tank with fish. Then add slowly and gradually. If your neons survive this, then they are schooling fish, so would be happier with a group of 6- but wait until cycling is done. Eventually a 10 gallon tank should be able to sustain a population of about 8 neons- or 6 neons and one or two other small fish (but do not buy anything without researching first- some members of the forum could tell you horror tales ).

 

[Marcos]

Try crumbling the flakes, neons only have small mouths!
Neons need good water quality, they may not be eating because your water may not be great due to to the filter being so new. You may have to prepare for the loss of further fish, certainly do not add any more in the first month.
Once the first month has gone you should be pretty much in the clear. You could try them on frozen bloodworm, mine love it!

 

[poveyt]

I will try crumbling. One thing I have noted is that they don't seem to like coming to the surface to feed at the moment. And once food floats down, they will only try and eat it if if goes right past their noses! Once it hits the gravel, they ignore it.

Also, if fish numbers hit zero (I really hope they don't - daughter was not happy about one going!), what should I do?

Thanks again!

 

[dwarfgourami]

Also, if fish numbers hit zero (I really hope they don't - daughter was not happy about one going!), what should I do?

I really hope this doesn't happen, but if it does, I think you should do a fishless cycle on the tank, and then look into starting up with something a bit hardier than neons. There are other colourful tetras (glowlights, for instance) that are less sensitive, there are livebearers (platies in particular), there are several other fish to choose from.

 

[poveyt]

I will do that - do I need to start from scratch or just start adding the ammonia (I really hope the latter!)? I will be getting platys next - from everything I have read, they are easier to keep and much more interesting.

Strangely enough (although I guess I shouldn't be too surprised) when Tom (the uncle) bought the neons, he was told that they were the best for starting a tank....

 

[dwarfgourami]

I will do that - do I need to start from scratch or just start adding the ammonia (I really hope the latter!)?

Don't give up hope yet- your present fish may still pull through!

If not- what do you mean by starting from scratch? If there are no fish in the tank, and no reason to believe they died from anything infectious, you can start by adding ammonia. But no added ammonia while there are fish in the tank, as I'm sure you understand.

[quote name='poveyt' date='Feb 19 2006, 11:33 AM' post='1081696'Strangely enough (although I guess I shouldn't be too surprised) when Tom (the uncle) bought the neons, he was told that they were the best for starting a tank....[/quote]

Doesn't surprise me at all; you should hear some of the stories from other forum members!

I will be getting platys next - from everything I have read, they are easier to keep and much more interesting.

Good choice- they're my favourite fish. Just make sure you read up on them and get the right gender ratio.

 

[Marcos]

To be honest I'd be suprised if you loose all of your neons, give it time and don't feed them too much, it'll cut down on the ammonia. Regular water changes will help (maybe 10% every other day) will also help until it's cycled.
Platty's are a good starter fish and come in lots of colours! You need at least two females to every male though (more is sometimes better), sexing them is explained in the fish index/livebearer thread.

 

[emma12321]

Hi,

If you go with platies get all females. They will still have a few batches of fry as they store sperm enough to have 6 batches for every mating and they have around 30 babies every 4 weeks which is not going to work in a 10 gallon tank. Read all the pinned topics in the livebearers section for more information.

Emma

 

[Marcos]

The fry will get eaten, that won't be a problem.

 

[dwarfgourami]

The fry will get eaten, that won't be a problem.

Depends on the individuals IME- some do, some don't. But a 10 gallon tank can sustain a group of 5 males, and in those numbers it should be perfectly possible to keep a male-only group.

 

[poveyt]

Looking well into the future, can anyone recommend a bottom feeder for my tank? I would like to have something (peaceful) that will hoover up the scraps...

Also, how many fish can this size tank substain? It looks like 5-8 would be my limit.

 

[Marcos]

Depends on the individuals IME- some do, some don't. But a 10 gallon tank can sustain a group of 5 males, and in those numbers it should be perfectly possible to keep a male-only group.

I agree. I've personally found that it always the males that can get aggressive though and I have six females in my tank with three males and I've never had any fry live. (and I wouldn't mind a few babies!)

 

[nonot8946]

Also, what is your Ph? Neons tend to die off at Ph's above 7.

A few small cories may be some nice bottom feeders, maybe pygmy cories for a small tank like yours.

Hold off on anymore fish until ammonia and nitrite are at zero for at least 2 weeks in a row. (Tested every day)

 

[poveyt]

Thanks for the help and advice so far. The 3 neons seem to be doing better (swimming around more in the tank) but I have not seen them feed yet.

PH is 8 - 8.5 (London tap water is high, I am told). Should I try lowering (guy in the shop said not to bother as "all the fish are acclimatised to 8.5"), but have some trouble believing all I am told....

Will be doing another 10% water change tomorrow morning (every 2 days, as advised above). One quick question - if I am changing 1 gallon water (4 litres) how much Aqua-Pure to add? Last time I aimed at just under 1/2 cap but would love to know if this needs to be any more scientific.

Again, thanks to everyone for the help - looking forward to getting through the cycling phase!