Hello And Help Re Fish Mortality

[tommyjtom]

Hello,
 
I am new to the forum and relatively new to the hobby having got my tank set up approximately 9 months ago.
 
The tank is a Juwel 125 and I have a Tetra EX700 exterbal filter. It has a mix of sand and gravel substrate (soon to be chaged to entirely sand), with some driftwood, with Java Ferns, some swords and some grasses as per attached image. Note that the spray bar is half out of the water so as to agitate the surface as I do not have an air stone.  
 
I change approximately 25% of the water every week using a dechloinator and I do my best to agitate the substratewith the syphon to remove any detritus. The current temp is 80 Farenheit and the lights are on a timer to come on for about 8 hours a day. The tank is in the corner of the room outside of direct sunlight. Water perameters have contunually been fine. I use Tetra 6 in 1 strips plus a Waterlife Ammonia kit which always comes up clear with not a hint of ammonia. . . ..  However I have consistently lost fish over the last 6 months or so.
 
I did have an issue when I went on holiday in the summer and I think the tank over heated and I lost some rummy nose tetra's and one or two black phantom tetras.
 
However, that problem aside I have lost two blue rams, one with severe popeye. 4-5 Black phantom tetras, 2 copper Rasbora and one corydora catfish. They have died failry intermittently and when disease appears to be the problem I have treated with Medimor, being sure to remove the carbon. I also use Melafix whenever introducing new fish. I have often been aware of a problem with them before they die as they lose their colour and may break away from a schooling group and the breathing seems laboured, but they do not gasp for air at the surface.
 
I think I could do with changing the filter media more often as currently I change the floss about once every 6-8 weeks and carbon every 2-3 months, but as the ammonia levels do not appear to be a problem I can't see that this is a huge issue.
 
I currenlty have 3 corydora catfish, 2 siamese algae eaters, 1 remaining black phantom that has been there since the very start and 4 coper rasbora.
 
Any help and tips would be greatly appreciated as I do not want to keep losing my fish.

 

[Ch4rlie]

Hello and 

 
Sorry to hear you've having some troubles with your tank.
 
You do have couple of issues that I ca see, a couple very, very minor, issues, let get these out of the way, first the spray bar does not need to be halfway out of water agitate the water surface, have the spray bar and inch under or over the water will be absolutely fine. 
I have my spray bar about 3/4 inch under water and nozzle holes pointing towards from at towards surface of water.
 
2nd minor issue, really more of a tip, you do not absolutely need an air stone, really is more for decorative purposes but some fish do like swimming in and out of the bubbles and is aesthetically pleasing  to look at.
 
Tetra 1 in 6 dip strip tests are basically unreliable and inaccurate a lot of the time, I'd advise you get a better test kit in liquid or powder form, API Freshwater Master Test Kit is fairly decent and good value for money, more reliable and more accurate. A lot of members on this forum use these kits.
 
You say your water is set at 80F / 27C, is this what your heater is set at or what you tank thermometer says? 
Heater control knob are known to be not calibrated or set properly, much better to use stick on or glass thermometers, more accurate this way.
 
 

I think I could do with changing the filter media more often as currently I change the floss about once every 6-8 weeks and carbon every 2-3 months, but as the ammonia levels do not appear to be a problem I can't see that this is a huge issue.

 
No, filter media should not be changed, have you actually changed filter media? Sponge or ceramic or perhaps bio balls type media?
 
If you do need to clean you media due to a build up of gunk, I'd advise a very gentle clean/squeeze in old tank water of your sponge or floss media (no more than half sponge or floss at any one time) every once in awhile, and never under tap water, this will kill any good bacteria you may have on these filter media.
 
Carbon as these only lasts a short while, and generally would just be used for removing used meds after completing treatments.
Anything other than that is not generally useful to have.
 

 I also use Melafix whenever introducing new fish.

 
I'd say better to use a quarantine tank for introducing new fish, if unable to do so, would advise acclimatising new stock for at least an hour before adding to tank. Using a drip method is the most reliable way of doing this, which is basically an airstone tubing with a knot in it and controls one or two drops per second of your tank water to the bag containing new fish over a period of time then letting fish out of bag to tank, try not to add LFS tank water to your tank.
 
Gasping fish tends to indicate ammonia/nitrite poisoning. Once you have a more reliable test kit, do test your water regularly and post to this forum, if unable to get your own test kit, go to your LFS and ask them to test your water and ask for specific test readings, do not just accept "it's ok" or "it's fine" type of response from them, that would help greatly.
 
Sorry if these seem a bit negative, we really would like to help you, and the more information you can provide in terms of symptoms, pictures would be a great help also, and for the time being I would up your water changes, at least until we have more information especially water test readings.
 
Sorry for your losses by the way.

 

[tommyjtom]

Thank you very much for the detailed response.
 
I will later my spray bar as you suggest, just to be sure it is ok merely rippling the water surface?
 
I will look in to getting an air stone and will sort an API test kit as soon as possible.
 
The temp was taken from glass thermometer placed at the other end of the tank from the heater.
 
Sorry the only thing I have changed in the filter is the filter floss as per the instructions. All the ceramic, balls and sponges have not been chnaged.
 
Thank you for the tip regarding introducing new fish. I must admit I have not bought any new ones for a while and do take time to let them acclimatise.
 
Thank you again for the help.

 

[Ch4rlie]

The first two points are really minor matters and do not HAVE to be changed, they are just suggestions.
Airstone is not essential in your tank, just for looks more than anything else. 
 
Thats good you have reliable temp readings, one less thing to worry about.
 
You may not have changed any filter media, however have you washed or cleaned them at any point?
 
Soon as you get some test results, just post them here and we'll see if we can help and take it from there.  

 

[Meeresstille]

So, it looks like the filter floss change is not the problem if you left the ceramic media alone. The only thing that I can add to the previous posts is that I think you may have been a little overstocked if I calculated it right. A Jewel 125 holds 125 liters? That would be about 33 gallons! 
There were in your tank 
2 GBR's
2 Siamese Algae Eaters
6 (or 8?) Black Phantom Tetras
6 Copper Rasboras
4 Corydoras (what kind are they, size matters)
some Rummynose Tetras
 
There is a quick calculation rule, the inch per gallon rule, which is really only to be used as a quick guide, not very reliable, but still it gives you somewhat an idea. 1 inch of adult sized fish per gallon. One adult Siamese Algae Eater would be approximately 6 inches, so with the two you already are at 12 gallons of water filled with fish. That leaves you only with 21 gallons to fill, which the remaining fish would exceed. 
 
The reason why this is important in terms of water quality is, that you would need very good filtration and probably a larger weekly water change than the 25% the tank got so far. There may be quite a build up of Nitrates which can cause problems for fish if the levels get too high. Also, with too many fish for the amount of water in the tank there may be a lot of waste build up that is left behind in/on the substrate that could promote bacterial or fungal infections. 
 
My calculations may be off if I am using the wrong numbers, in that case never mind my post!

 

[tommyjtom]

Hi Meeresstille,
 
Thanks for the post. I did not have them all in at once. Essentially I lost the 6 rummynose very quickly and they were replaced with 6 harlequin rasboras. The most I have ever had in there at any one time are 4 Sterba's Corydora's, 4  black Phantom, 2 GBRs and either the six rummy nose or the 6 coppers. Incidentally, my SAEs are not fully gorwn as yet and are more like 3-4 inches. SO I don't  think I have been, or ineed currently are overstocked and I have erred on the side of caution when it comes to this.
 
However it could indeed by a build up of nitrates, I have mostly tested for ammonian in the past, although the test strips for nitrates have always come up ok. I did try and get a liquid test kit this afternoon but the local shop did not have any in stock, so I will try and get up to Maidenhead aquatics tomorrow.
 
Incidentally whilst on the subject of water changes I currently do two 15L buckets worth in one go, using a syphon. Would it be better to do another couple of buckets, or to do another two another day of the week?

 

[tommyjtom]

Ok, so I have now done a test with the API freshwater kit and reached the following;
 
[SIZE=medium]Ph – between 7.8 -8.0[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Ammonia – 0.25ppm - it had the faintest of green colour in it[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Nitrite – 0 ppm[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Nitrate – Between 20 – 40 ppm - When help up to the daylight it definitely had a more orange tinge (20ppm) when held against the white of the card it was slightly more red (40ppm)[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=medium]Obviously the ammonia is a concern, particuarly as I did a 25% water change yesterday. Clearly the Waterlife test I have been using is not up to much. [/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=medium]Any other comments would be appreciated. [/SIZE]

 

[Meeresstille]

With the pH at that level I'd try to get the Ammonia as close to 0 as possible. (Have you checked if you have ammonia coming from the tap? If so, there is not much you can do but wait it out until the beneficial bacteria has had a chance to convert it...or to add RO water)
 
Your nitrates are higher than I would keep them, but I don't think these levels would cause the problems you've been having. A lot of people keep their nitrates there or even higher. Rams are quite sensitive fish and need very good water quality, so if you were to try them again, you will definitely need to do more than 25% WC per week.
 
Personally I change 50% weekly, but there was a time where I had pH crash issues due to low amount of dissolved minerals in the water and I had to do 25% twice weekly in order not to shock the fish!
 
What you could do is to change a little more water and see if that solves your problem. One more thought: look if there was some sort of contaminant. Any cleaning liquid that could have entered the tank? Only use buckets and rags that have not gotten in contact with cleaning liquids. Aerosol sprays can enter from the air into the water, so don't spray anything near the tank (glass cleaners on the tank are a common mistake, you can add the cleaner on a cloth away from the tank and then use it on the outside of the tank, or what is safer is to just use old tank water)!

 

[tommyjtom]

Thank you.
 
I changed approx 40-50% of the water last night and have done another test with the API kit this morning and to my eye whilst it is definitely yellow there is a slight green shade. However I have also tested my tap water and it is identical. It might be me seeing the worse in the test or maybe I do have a trace of ammonia in the tap water. Strange as I am only about three quarters of a mile from Maidenhead Aquatics and I know they use the tap water. Still I suppose it is possible that my service pipes have slight contamination.
 
This may be a daft question but could I test bottled water to try and get a 'safe' sample?

 

[Meeresstille]

Yes, testing bottled water will give you something to compare it with. 

 

[SimpleDog]

Check the ammonia of your tap water. The area I used to live in had approximately 1ppm of ammonia in it.

 

[the_lock_man]

The UK seems to be more strict on tapwater quality than the US, the maximum legal level of total ammonia over here is 0.5ppm. My local supply averaged 0.03ppm (ie unreadable on our hobbyist test kits) throughout 2012. As I understand it, these levels are similar to that which the rest of the UK enjoys.
 
I would not be unduly worried by a reading that you think might be 0.25, and then again might be less than that. The API test is very difficult to discern between 0ppm and 0.25ppm, so the fact that you are experiencing similar with the Waterlife kit doesn't worry me.

 

[tommyjtom]

Thank you all for your input.
 
I have just tested some bottled water and also water from the tank and they both come out exactly the same colour with the API test kit. Therefore I am fairly confident that the tank is currently ammonia free. I will continue to test but suspect that previous issues may have been caused by overfeeding and high ammonia levels. I will make sure, going forward that I do not feed the for at least one day a week and cut down on the amount.
 
Partly the issue I have had in the past is that some of the more greedy fish tend to gobble it all up before some of the slower guys and the corys, consequently I have possibly added too much food and overcompensated.
 
As and when I increase stocking levels, I think I will buy fish that like hard water, maybe guppies (male for now) as the PH levels are high and the GH is at least 16, hopefully this will make for a happier tank. I don't think the singular phantom tetra will give them any trouble as he is fairly solitary now.
 
Thanks again.