has anyone evertried making poor mans

utahfish

Fish Herder
Joined
May 5, 2004
Messages
1,503
Reaction score
1,389
i've been reading alot about putting kno3 and k2so4 into the tank for the plants and came acrross an article written by two guys.

they have a recipe that they swear by and say it controls algae.

anyway you mix 2 teaspoons of k2so4 1 teasppon of kno3 2.5 table spoons of hydrated magnesium sulfate or(epsom salts) 1 tblspn of chelated iron mix into 1.5 cups of distilled water.

you mix it all up and drop it in your tank as needed to raise your phospahtes and nitrates.

i'm wondering if anyone has any experience with this method and if it has worked for them becasue it seems it would be cheaper then going and buying an 8.00$ bottle of pottasium and another of excel and iron every couple of weeks.
 

George Farmer

ad aqua
Joined
Jul 6, 2003
Messages
5,015
Reaction score
0
Location
Stamford, Lincs, UK
PMDD relies on phosphate limitation as algae control. This is fine for most set-ups. However, the planted tank scene has moved on considerably in 9 years (when their paper was written). It is widely known that in high growth and nutrient uptake situations a lack of phosphate may actually lead to certain types of algae. I have experienced this and now actually add phosphates to my 34G.

The addition on Epsom salts will not be necessary for you as you already have suffient GH. Conlin and Sears had very soft water and therefore required the extra magnesium and calcium levels.

In short adding KNO3 and K2SO4 will be great if and when you start to show excellent growth. Until then I would not recommend adding dry ferts - normal "off-the-shelf" ferts will suffice, they are cheap and easy to use.

Get your CO2 at a constant 25 to 30 mg/l and your lighting to 3 WPG minimum. Then you will acheive the growth necessary to justisfy the regular addition of macronutrients (KNO3, K2SO4 and possibly KH2PO4).

Hope this helps (rather than confuses!)
 

Nospherith

Fishaholic
Joined
Dec 7, 2004
Messages
510
Reaction score
0
Location
ainrofilac
Is this theory that PO4 causes algae actually debunked or is it just more of a hypothesis? I'd like to dose PO4, but it wouldn't be all that great to see the tank turn into a mess with 5 different types of algae everywhere.
 

iggy01

Fish Crazy
Joined
May 12, 2004
Messages
381
Reaction score
0
Location
England
Nospherith said:
Is this theory that PO4 causes algae actually debunked or is it just more of a hypothesis? I'd like to dose PO4, but it wouldn't be all that great to see the tank turn into a mess with 5 different types of algae everywhere.
The theory that PO4 causes algae has been disproven by Tom Barr and his Estimative Index. As long as there aren't any deficiences with other nutrients (these need to be dosed too with a 50% weekly water change to reset the tank) and CO2 is around the 30mg/l mark, there shouldn't be a problem.

The suggested PO4 level when using the Estimative Index is between 1.0 - 2.0 mg/l. Many people say it reduces green spot algae at these levels too.

Having said all that, if you're having success with your current dosing regime, why change it! The idea for most of us, is to have a successful planted tank, with healthy plants and minimal algae. It doesn't matter how we achieve this as long as we are happy with the result. :nod:
 

Nospherith

Fishaholic
Joined
Dec 7, 2004
Messages
510
Reaction score
0
Location
ainrofilac
iggy01 said:
The theory that PO4 causes algae has been disproven by Tom Barr and his Estimative Index. As long as there aren't any deficiences with other nutrients (these need to be dosed too with a 50% weekly water change to reset the tank) and CO2 is around the 30mg/l mark, there shouldn't be a problem.
thanks for clearing that up; however, that only proves that PO4 doesn't cause algae granted that it's between 1.0-2.0 mg/l when plant uptake is sufficient. It doesn't answer the question of whether or not PO4 is a direct algae nutrient.

Example: You're plants are growing great, and you're dosing per EI suggested for your tank, including PO4. All the nutrients are in balance. But all of a sudden, while plant uptake is still good, there is an excess of PO4. Will that cause algae?
 
OP
U

utahfish

Fish Herder
Joined
May 5, 2004
Messages
1,503
Reaction score
1,389
how does it all relate to the nitrogen, phospahte ratio?
 

iggy01

Fish Crazy
Joined
May 12, 2004
Messages
381
Reaction score
0
Location
England
Nospherith said:
Example: You're plants are growing great, and you're dosing per EI suggested for your tank, including PO4. All the nutrients are in balance. But all of a sudden, while plant uptake is still good, there is an excess of PO4. Will that cause algae?
I understand what you're getting at Nospherith and it is a valid point. However, if you were dosing with the E.I. as suggested for your tank. PO4 levels would never rise above twice the amount dosed weekly. I.E you dose 1.0 mg/l of phosphate weekly. Assuming there is no uptake from your plants whatsoever, the maximum amount of PO4 in your tank, in addition to what is in the tap water, would be 2.0 mg/l. This is because of the 50% weekly water change that in effect resets the tank.

If you have a high light tank with CO2 and dose as suggested, PO4 uptake rate is likely to be 0.2-0.6mg/l per day.

It is always wise to contact your local water company and ask for a copy of the Drinking Water Register. I don't see the point in adding PO4 if your tap water contains 10 mg/l.

I don't know what level of PO4 would cause algae. I'm not sure anyone does. I suppose it would once again depend on other influencing factors, deficiencies etc.
 

iggy01

Fish Crazy
Joined
May 12, 2004
Messages
381
Reaction score
0
Location
England
utahfish said:
how does it all relate to the nitrogen, phospahte ratio?
Ultimately, one of the benefits of the E.I. is that you no longer have to rely on constantly testing and monitoring nitrate - phosphate levels etc.

Although many people still continue to test because they like to keep a 10:1 ratio, or keep an eye on levels in general. I would think 99% of people continue to test when first starting with the E.I. until they get a feel for things. It is up to the individual.

As long as all nutrients are kept within the suggested levels, I don't think the 10:1 ratio is as crucial as was once thought. It's more a case of preventing deficiencies, than worrying about a bit too much of any given nutrient.
 

superjalami30

Fishaholic
Joined
Apr 10, 2005
Messages
600
Reaction score
0
Location
Ontario, Canada
Ok, My phosphate levels are off the chart, over 10ppm anyways.
I personally dont have a test kit, but I get it tested at the lfs.
I will be buying a test kit, I'm just too poor atm, and have a trip coming up soon....lol.
In other words I'm being cheap.

Anyways, I "had" a slight hair algae problem awhile ago, I started adding KN03 and K2s04 along with seachems comp and seachems iron, and few other ferts.
Since this change in ferts (I used too only use nutrafins plantgro), my hair algae problem has completely disappeared.
(I add C02 as well, exactly how many ppm I dont know)

I do have however, quite a bit of green spot algae.

Natrually the lfs is trying to sell me phosphate removers and I argued that I "want phosphate in my tank (1 ppm or so right?).

How can I get my phosphate levels down besides water changes?
I dont want to use phosphate removers because they remove nitrate as well.
the lfs sells a product called phosban that is very expensive and claims to remove phophates only, think I should try it?
I'd rather not.

Asides from a few questions my tank has been stable for quite some time, and I'm learning more and more about plants in the aquarium (thanks too you guys).
the last thing I want is total mayhem!!
help me out folks please :D
 

IMCL85

Fish Addict
Joined
Jun 27, 2005
Messages
788
Reaction score
0
Location
CA
my pure planted tank is nice to window. Alot of people keep telling me that algea would grow like hell. But I have found that yes some algea does grow but not like alot just like little same as every tank. I dont tend to use lamp. My tank is 20g and dont have anything install beside a co2 system and a filter to keep water current for in order to release co2. And massive planted. Planted r beautiful under real sunlight. And out growing atm I have to cut them once a weeks in order to stop them from getting off the surface. Seriousely if you can put a 20-25 tank nice to window and it would give u a good view if you do it right.
 

iggy01

Fish Crazy
Joined
May 12, 2004
Messages
381
Reaction score
0
Location
England
superjalami30 said:
How can I get my phosphate levels down besides water changes?
I dont want to use phosphate removers because they remove nitrate as well.
Water changes are probably the best way to get your phosphate levels down, providing the phosphate in your tap water is lower than in your tank.

You can use phosphate removers. I've used rowaphos before and it seemed to work ok.
 
Top