German Blue Ram - Constipation - Or Something Else

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pammy172

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I have two German Blue Rams which I got last week. They are stunningly beautiful. One is the picture of health and not at all shy. The other started out a picture if health etc but over the past day or two has become less active preferring to stay somewhere quite and has long white stringy poo hanging from him. I was thinking about getting a hospital tank that sits in the existing tank but wonder what might be wrong. I've heard it could be parasitic in which case what's the best way to treat? I do have another tank that I could set up as an isolation tank if need be. But could it just be constipation? He doesn't seem bloated and he does eat - just not with gusto.

Water stats are all fine - ammonia 0ppm, nitrite 0ppm, nitriate 15ppm, ph 7.2, 25% water change only done on monday when more flubenal was added to get rid of the snails. All other fish fit and well. Fed Daphnia last week. Otherwise fed Tetra Prima and TetraMin Flake, also tetra wafers for the corys that they all seem to like to nibble on. Temp 80F

TIA.
 
If it's a bit of consipation you could try giving the fish some squashed up pea. Then don't feed for a day to let it have a bit of a clear out.

If it's not constipation then it could be internal parasites. Try the pea first and if that doesn't seem to help, you may need to start medicating. Your LFS will tell you which meds they have in stock for that.

Athena
 
Thanks Athena - managed to get a pic too!

P1020654.jpg
 
Well he's not clamping his fins, which is a good sign - and although he doesn't have much of the blue spangles (which they get when they are very happy and settled) he hasn't gone really dark, which usually happens when they are stressed/unhappy.

So, let's hope it's just a bowel thing - try the pea and see if he eats any, then wait a day or so and monitor his poops LOL (such fun being on poop-watch eh?) :lol: Also, keep a watch for any signs of whitish/grey pimples/patches.

Also, they can do lighter coloured poops depending on what they are fed. But, I agree, that is a bit long and stringy.

Regards - Athena
 
Thanks Athena - well things have moved on a little - athough not particularly in the poop dept. He was being pestered by the other which we thought was a female - so I popped him into an isolation net to give him a break, recognising it's not the norm for the girl to pester the boy :huh: . Considered what the options were with a boy being chased by a girl and so went to the lfs and decided to buy another pair to see how they all got on releasing them all at the same time in the hope the pest would get confused. Well what a turn up - Turns out the she was a he too!!! :eek: :eek: :eek: Showed off very definitely to the new female. So I now have three males and one female hmmmmm :blink: :/ . The original pest, she who became a he, was still being a pest so "he" is now in the iso net. The new ones have paired off quite nicely :friends: though the original boy who was off colour is being chased a bit by the new male.

Not sure what to do for the best really. Am tempted to take the original two back to the lfs and keep the new pair from today as they seem OK. Or do I buy another couple of females - would that do the trick? Don't really want to take any back as I do so love these little fish - but it seems a fairly heavily planted 260l tank wth lots of caves doesn't offer enough hiding places for this lot!

Any thoughts anyone ????
 
New update - the "poorly" boy now seems to be developing some lumps on his head. Will try and get a pic. Could this be bacterial? I have a hospital tank that I could set up - would treating with melafix or pimafix be in order?

Pics added:

P1020705-1.jpg


P1020697.jpg


P1020703-1.jpg
 
Are the lumps showing signs of redness, like blood under the skin? Did you ever treat for the internal problems originally?

Water stats again please?

With regards to the four rams in the 260L you should be fine, plenty of room for territories.
 
Are the lumps showing signs of redness, like blood under the skin? Did you ever treat for the internal problems originally?

Water stats again please?

With regards to the four rams in the 260L you should be fine, plenty of room for territories.

Thanks for the reply - much appreciated.

No obvious signs of redness and haven't treated for internal problems as to be honest I have no idea what to treat with :(

Results from tests just done

Temp - 80
Ph7
Ammonia 0.25ppm - OMG it's always been 0ppm - am gutted.
Nitrite 0ppm deffo
Nitrate no more than 20ppm - poss less but more than 10.

Last water change last monday - due to do another tomorrow.

Have treated tank with flubenol to rid us of snails.

I've also noticed two of our Corys have lost their barbels :( Sand substrate.

I do have the 45 litre tank that has just about finished cycling - clearing within 19 hours if moving them to another tank to treat would help. Can also set up another filter in it if necessary takling some mature media form the filters on the 260. Could there be something going on in the substrate. Am now very confused and concerned and at a loss.

Can't do a water change until tonight as I'm on my own - could I add some Seachem Prime to detox the Ammonia as a short term measure?
 
Have done a 15% water change and also added extra Prime to give a little extra protection, Readig is now 0 for ammonia - phew! Will kee a very close eye on that for the next few days.

Any other ideas about the Ram anyone?
 
Mikrogeophagus ramirezi is not a species I recommend, as you'll know if you read any of my stuff in PFK! It's a difficult species to maintain, and the quality of the fish in the trade is low. The main problem is that this fish must have warm (28-30 C) water that is both soft (5 degrees dH, at most) and quite acidic (around 6 being good). Soft and acidic water isn't what filter bacteria like, and in fact below pH 6 the bacteria may stop working altogether. So water quality is a major problem when running these blackwater tanks, and often people use zeolite instead.

If you are not keeping your Mikrogeophagus ramirezi in very soft, very acidic, very warm water, then you won't have good odds of long term success. This is why I don't recommend these fish, and personally wouldn't touch them with a bargepole. Mikrogeophagus altispinosus is altogether a much better fish and the only member of the genus suitable for casual aquarists or community tanks. Mikrogeophagus ramirezi is for expert fishkeepers only, and cannot be kept in community tanks.

On top of this, Mikrogeophagus ramirezi needs very low levels of nitrate, and anything above 20 mg/l is likely harmful to them. Farmed specimens are said to be maintained using antimicrobial medications, and that would certainly explain why so many specimens get ill within a few months of purchase: without these medications, they get weaker and less resistant.

The particular infection to watch for is Hexamita. This protozoan likely infects all farmed cichlids, but only in certain circumstances does it become a problem. Nitrate is a key triggering factor, and you often see Hexamita-infected cichlids when cichlids are kept in overstocked or otherwise improperly maintained tanks. The first sign is the production of long, pale faeces. Put simply, the protozoans irritate the gut, and the gut produces larger amounts of mucous than normal. This is what the long and pale faeces are all about. Hexamita protozoans in the gut can be fatal once they expand to the other internal organs, resulting in lethargy and bloating, but usually you see another symptom, "hole in the head", where the protozoans somehow travel to the sensory pores on the head. A combination of these and secondary bacterial infections produces the tell-tale ulcers on the head.

I've written about Hexamita over on Fish Channel, and discuss the treatment there, so there's no real point going over it again. But suffice it to say that you can't cure Hexamita without using Metronidazole. General cures, tonic salt, etc. will have no affect at all. In combination with the Metronidazole, you'll also have to optimise living conditions and apparently diet too, because diet (typically a lack of greens) seems to be a major factor in some cases. A lot of aquarists assume their fish eat mostly bloodworms and other small animals, yet in the wild, fish like Mikrogeophagus ramirezi will be consuming a lot of algae and organic matter, and that may be a key source of vitamins that we don't consider when feeding them meat-based foods.

Cheers, Neale
 
Neale - many thanks for your reply. I'm gutted :( looks like the poorly one won't make it then and that the others are also going to be at risk.
 
You might try eSHa Discus Disease, a new medication said to treat hole-in-the-head. I've never used it, so can't offer an opinion as to its efficacy, but eSHa products are otherwise very good, so it may be worth a shot.

http://www.eshalabs.com/hexamita.htm

Cheers, Neale

Neale - many thanks for your reply. I'm gutted :( looks like the poorly one won't make it then and that the others are also going to be at risk.
 
You might try eSHa Discus Disease, a new medication said to treat hole-in-the-head. I've never used it, so can't offer an opinion as to its efficacy, but eSHa products are otherwise very good, so it may be worth a shot.

[URL="http://www.eshalabs.com/hexamita.htm"]http://www.eshalabs.com/hexamita.htm[/URL]

Cheers, Neale

Neale - many thanks for your reply. I'm gutted :( looks like the poorly one won't make it then and that the others are also going to be at risk.


Looks to be worth a shot! Many thanks - will get some ordered straight away.

Thanks again for all your help.
 

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