From fished to Fishless Cycle?

[SkiFletch]

to my poor male dwarf gourami. Some of you may or may not remember my story of my newly restarted 20gal, but heres a quick synopsis. Started a fished cycle as a noob with a dwarf gourami and a betta (both males). Yeah, theres a whole lot of big mistakes there, I know... The dwarf pretty much killed the betta overnight so down to one dwarf.

I struggled keeping the ammonia levels down and even with ultimately 30% daily water changes still couldnt keep it below 2.0ppm. The dwarf ended up showing signs of ammonia burns so I started treating with Melafix as per a lot of reccomendations here. Yesterday evening after I got home from work (after LFS closed) I noticed he had a secondary infection of probably columnaris or fungus. White cottony stuff on his sides with a irritated red ring around it. Then this morning when I awoke he had passed away almoast completely covered in the white stuff laying motionless on the bottom. Something tells me the ammonia stress/burns along with secondary infection sped up the process.

Tested the water this morning after I removed him and we're at the following stats: 8.0pH, 3.0 NH3, 0.25 NO2, 0 NO3. It has been 10 days since I added the dwarf in the first place so I assume I'm quickly approaching the saturation of ammonia bacteria and the accompanying nitrite spike. Up until two days ago nitrites were 0. Then there was a trace, yesterday 0.1ppm, and today 0.25ppm. Ammonia has been slowly dropping from its high of 5ppm on day 2 too 2ppm yesterday and 3ppm today (i assume a decaying fish is responsible for that).

So does anyone have any idea how I should proceed with a fishLESS cycle (not repeating the same mistakes). I have access to pure lab grade ammonia of known concentration, therefore I can make decisive adjustments with a few simple calculations. Should I try raising my ammonia level to the 5ppm I see reccomended and then keep it there by daily testing and adding whatever its going to take to keep it there? I'm pretty sure I can find some nitrite too here at the lab. If so would it speed things up if I increased its concentration to some level?

Your advice is appreciated

 

[kimbowee]

Sorry for your loss.

I am pretty sure you are thinking along the correct lines. If you keep adding the ammonia at the 5ppm it should comtinue to cycle without fish. It should be done right away so the good bacteria does not start to die off.

I am not really sure about the infection with the Gourami though. It does indeed sound like Columnaris by how you described it & by how fast it killed the fish. Not sure if it will continue it live in the water or not. I know its a baterial infection brought on by bad water conditions.

If I were you I would get the ammonia and do as you had planned. Then maybe someone a little more knowledgable then myself can tell you if you do indeed need to strip down the tank and start over.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

 

[SkiFletch]

Anyone wanna weigh in on if I should continue to treat or not?

Tonights stats: pH 8.0, Ammonia 2.5ppm, nitrites 0.3ppm

Nitrites are going up ammonia is coming down, so I think I'm on the right track here. Added some measured ammonia and up to an exact 5ppm thanks to knowing the concentration . So unless someone tells me otherwise I'm going to add appropriate amounts of ammonia to reach 5ppm daily after testing and watch the nitrites to wait for them to fall too. Gonna try and go sans medication to not hurt the bacteria in the process.

Please let me know if I should change anything i'm doing, thanks

 

[Raz]

Simple...Leave the tank alone and let it cycle naturally...The more crap you dump into the tank will only screw it up again/more.....

Im thinking either you over fed or had something in the tank itself that would have caused the prob in the 1st place.

 

[kimbowee]

Tanks don't cycle naturally. There needs to be a source of ammonia added for the Nitrogen cycle to work. There are no fish in the tank so adding the ammonia is not going to hurt anything, only help your cycling.

I would keep adding the ammonia as you are to keep the tank cycling. It sounds like you have already read the fishless cycling process & that you are aware of where your readings should be at.

Wilder & Black Angel are really more knowledgable then myself about the disease issues. I did some searching and found 2 websites that Wilder had recommended to others who had fish with Columnaris. Sorry Wilder if this offends you.

http/www.flippersandfins.net/flexibacter.htm

and

http/www.nippyfish.net/flexibacter.html

On the first site I am quoting "Disinfectant dips, such as with quaternary ammonium, and prolonged immersion in potassium permanganate or copper sulfate have been advocated." Not sure if this means adding ammonia to the tank will indeed kill any bacteria remaining or not. That would be a question for those fishy geniuses out there.

Sorry, best I can do. Don't give up yet.

 

[SkiFletch]

Well, I do know chemistry and Quaternary Ammonia means NH4+, the form that ammonia takes in water of basic pH (greater than 7.0)....

Anyway, that first article is awesome. "The white patches often have a reddish rim around them and within 24 hours, they can quickly form an ulcer (raw open area in the skin), which is shaped like a circle and then it enlarges." Had I known that and seen the picture associated I might have been able to make an earlier diagnosis as my fish first got the same irritated mouth before the full-on infection. DOH

Great article though, thank you. I'll just drop the temp and keep the ammonia plugging away, that should keep any remaining columnaris at bay