Fishless Nitrogen Cycle Necessary?

[mark4785]

Hello,

I have recently purchased a 150 litre aquarium and I have gone about placing some sand substrate onto the base; the substrate product is called Caraibsea Instant Aquarium torpedo Beach, and can be viewed here.

The dilemma I have at the moment is whether or not to continue a traditional fishless cycle which involves the following:
1. Introduction of Tetra Safe Start to initiate the growth of beneficial bacteria.
2. Introduction of ammonia for the beneficial bacteria to feed on.
3. Systematic checking of ammonia/nitrite levels until they no longer fluctuate above zero.
4. Introduction of Fish.

The reason I have this dilemma is due to the way in which the substrate instructions are presented. For instance, it says fish can be added safely 24 hours after the substrate is introduced. This seems to imply that there is a mature colony of beneficial bacteria in the substrate which will instantly begin eating ammonia that is produced, including ammonia produced by fish, hence the reason the product says you can add fish 'safely' after 24 hours. It certainly contains dechlorinator properties, something not usually found in substrates.

The main body of the product description says the following: "Tap water is all you need to get started. Instant Aquarium immediately begins the cycling process, eliminating new tank syndrome, and discourages nuisances algaes. Instant Aquarium detoxifies metals, eliminates ammonia, neutralises chlorine and chloramines, and provides a slime coat for stressed fish. Instant Aquarium also reduces nitrates and nitrites."

Another reason why I am not overly confident to continue my fishless cycle is due to the fact that the total ammonia reading still remains at zero despite adding fish flakes (source of ammonia) every day for 5 days. Its as though something is absorbing the ammonia really quickly or should I not expect a higher ammonia reading until much later?

I'd appreciate it if anybody could lend their advice as the substrate is causing confusion as to whether a fishless cycle is necessary or not!

Mark.

 

[KAISER]

Sorry, but sounds like sales nonsense to me, your going to have to cycle the tank, with or without this product. I think there are a few things like this on the market, Nutrafin cycle springs to mind.

 

[Assaye]

Fish flakes don't = ammonia. Fish flakes + bacteria + other natural processes = ammonia. The fish flakes need to decompose quite a bit and there needs to be quite a lot of them to get a detectable ammonia reading. This is why fish flakes are not a very reliable and controllable method of fishless cycling.

There are 101 products on the market that claim to make aquariums fish safe within a few hours/days. If these products genuinely worked, genuinely added all the essential bacteria, etc, no-one would both to manually cycle a tank.

The best these products do is either a water borne bacteria (which may or may not be alive) that deal with some of the fish waste before the filter bacteria can grow, or have some kind of resin (such as zeolite and nitrazorb) that absorbs ammonia/nitrites. None of these products will make it instantly cycle. The correct bacteria need to find their way into the filter and get growing, and products don't make that happen.

If you want to test this product, by all means do. Just make sure you have a liquid test kit at the ready, that you religiously test the water at least twice a day and that you do any and all necessary water changes to keep ammonia and nitrite at zero.

 

[PDSimon]

Apparently the only way they could sell the bacteria would be in frozen form and there not which says it all...

 

[OldMan47]

It is entirely possible to create a product that does what the ads claim, it is called ion exchange resin. It will absolutely remove metals, and any ionic compounds from the water. Sounds perfect doesn't it? Here is the catch, the ion exchange resin becomes exhausted by actually doing that very absorbing, and when it is finally used up, you have nothing in the tank to control the ammonia and nitrites that result from normal biological processes. You have artificially removed every trace of ammonia so no bacteria that require ammonia have grown. Worse yet, the trace amount of bacteria that may have been present in your tank from tap water has been starved to death.

 

[mark4785]

The only reason I am relying on fish flakes to decompose is because I tried identifying a product which contains pure ammonia but I'm unsure as to which one would be suitable for fishless cycling. I would appreciate some advice for which product is relevant.

The substrate that I am using does not contain zeolite or any kind of item which gets rid of harmful ions. I interpreted it as a product which comes with mature beneficial bacteria, and that is why the manufacture is able to say the product helps you avoid new tank syndrome. It doesn't specifically say it contains nitrosomona or nitrospira bacteria which concerns me.

Should I continue my fishless cycle but switch to using a bottle of pure ammonia? If I am not able to get an ammonia reading when using pure ammonia I will just have to presume the substrate contains beneficial bacteria.

 

[KkAaNnEe]

The only reason I am relying on fish flakes to decompose is because I tried identifying a product which contains pure ammonia but I'm unsure as to which one would be suitable for fishless cycling. I would appreciate some advice for which product is relevant.

The substrate that I am using does not contain zeolite or any kind of item which gets rid of harmful ions. I interpreted it as a product which comes with mature beneficial bacteria, and that is why the manufacture is able to say the product helps you avoid new tank syndrome. It doesn't specifically say it contains nitrosomona or nitrospira bacteria which concerns me.

Should I continue my fishless cycle but switch to using a bottle of pure ammonia? If I am not able to get an ammonia reading when using pure ammonia I will just have to presume the substrate contains beneficial bacteria.

Hi Mark, to be honest i would advise to leave the fish flakes alone, as I have just completed my own fishless cycle... i started by using flakes but even after 7 days there was no sign of ammonia and i had a very messy aquarium, i picked up a bottle of ammonia from Homebase, you can also get it from Boots ive heard.. Have a look in the beginners recource part of the forum it tells you a lot of good info about cycling

The Ammonia from Homebase is 'Household Ammonia' (white bottle) on the back it reads Ammonia 9.5%

 

[Assaye]

The only reason I am relying on fish flakes to decompose is because I tried identifying a product which contains pure ammonia but I'm unsure as to which one would be suitable for fishless cycling. I would appreciate some advice for which product is relevant.

The substrate that I am using does not contain zeolite or any kind of item which gets rid of harmful ions. I interpreted it as a product which comes with mature beneficial bacteria, and that is why the manufacture is able to say the product helps you avoid new tank syndrome. It doesn't specifically say it contains nitrosomona or nitrospira bacteria which concerns me.

Should I continue my fishless cycle but switch to using a bottle of pure ammonia? If I am not able to get an ammonia reading when using pure ammonia I will just have to presume the substrate contains beneficial bacteria.

I would try that. The thing about the beneficial bacteria is the stuff you need *is* in your filter because that is where it can get enough food and oxygen. The gravel is unlikely to get enough oxygen and water movement over it for nitrospira and nitrosomona bacteria to survive.

Try B&Q or Boots. You want ammonia mixed with water (to give a dilute ammonia solution) and it needs to be one free of surfacants or perfumes and that doesn't foam. Should be in the cleaning section.

 

[mark4785]

Hi Mark, to be honest i would advise to leave the fish flakes alone, as I have just completed my own fishless cycle... i started by using flakes but even after 7 days there was no sign of ammonia and i had a very messy aquarium, i picked up a bottle of ammonia from Homebase, you can also get it from Boots ive heard.. Have a look in the beginners recource part of the forum it tells you a lot of good info about cycling

The Ammonia from Homebase is 'Household Ammonia' (white bottle) on the back it reads Ammonia 9.5%

Thanks for the info. I think I may have found that product on Amazon. Could you let me know if this is the correct product? Thank you.

KkAaNnEe, I am not suprised it got messy. Like I said, I have only been adding the flakes for about 5 days and the tank is starting to stink when I open up the lid.

 

[Assaye]

Hi Mark, to be honest i would advise to leave the fish flakes alone, as I have just completed my own fishless cycle... i started by using flakes but even after 7 days there was no sign of ammonia and i had a very messy aquarium, i picked up a bottle of ammonia from Homebase, you can also get it from Boots ive heard.. Have a look in the beginners recource part of the forum it tells you a lot of good info about cycling

The Ammonia from Homebase is 'Household Ammonia' (white bottle) on the back it reads Ammonia 9.5%

Thanks for the info. I think I may have found that product on Amazon. Could you let me know if this is the correct product? Thank you.

KkAaNnEe, I am not suprised it got messy. Like I said, I have only been adding the flakes for about 5 days and the tank is starting to stink when I open up the lid.

That's the stuff I use

 

[mark4785]

Thank you for confirming. I have gone ahead and ordered the product from Amazon. I will post back here soon to let you know how the cycling progresses!

 

[waterdrop]

Welcome to the forum Mark, you're in good hands with recommendations from Assaye.

The members here do try hard to help beginners with fishless cycles, it can be a trying process sometimes and it really helps to have others to talk to about it. Try reading some other beginner fishless cycle threads here. It can be good to keep the chat going as you never know what tips people might have that will help you.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[mark4785]

Hi Mark, to be honest i would advise to leave the fish flakes alone, as I have just completed my own fishless cycle... i started by using flakes but even after 7 days there was no sign of ammonia and i had a very messy aquarium, i picked up a bottle of ammonia from Homebase, you can also get it from Boots ive heard.. Have a look in the beginners recource part of the forum it tells you a lot of good info about cycling

The Ammonia from Homebase is 'Household Ammonia' (white bottle) on the back it reads Ammonia 9.5%

Thanks for the info. I think I may have found that product on Amazon. Could you let me know if this is the correct product? Thank you.

KkAaNnEe, I am not suprised it got messy. Like I said, I have only been adding the flakes for about 5 days and the tank is starting to stink when I open up the lid.

That's the stuff I use

The bottle of ammonia has arrived. I don't think it's a Homebase brand as it doesn't say it contains '9.5% ammonia', it just states 'contains ammonia solution'. It has the 'irritant' emblem on the back so it looks as though I now need to order some protective goggles and gloves just to begin using it.

Is there some sort of a guide saying how much ammonia I should be adding to my aquarium. As I said, it is a 150 litre tank and I am bit confused as to how much ammonia concentration is needed to get a total ammonia reading of 4-5 ppm.

 

[hillbilly]

There is a calculator button on the top of the page.

 

[mark4785]

There is a calculator button on the top of the page.

Thank you for that. The calculator does request for the percentage of ammonia in the bottle which is not stated anywhere on it.

All the information I am given on the bottle is that it holds 500ml, it is irritant and the instructions for use (degreases and cleans work surfaces etc). How can a product so potent be introduced to a fish tank? Have I got the right product here?