Fishless Cycling Problem

[Betta Love]

Hey guys!
So I started cycling my new 10 gallon tank to move my Betta in later on it’s been cycling for almost a week now and I used One and Only as the directions said and I used their ammonium chloride as directed on the bottle and I just checked the ammonia and nitrite-0.25 and my ammonia skyrocketed to 6.0 ppm I have been using the products correctly and I have no idea why suddenly my ammonia levels skyrocketed during the cycling process I just did a big water change but now I’m worried I messed up the process because of the skyrocketing ammonia does this mean that I just took out all the beneficial bacteria from the bottle out of my tank? And have to get a new one thanks

 

[Essjay]

Just to check - are you using a special plant substrate? Some of the soil types do leach ammonia.

Dr Tim's ammonium chloride dose is 4 drops per gallon. In the UK, maybe also in the US, the volume quoted by a tank manufacturer includes the thickness of the glass and the air space above the water, so it holds less water than the quoted volume. Then there's the volume taken up by the substrate, decor, heater etc. So call it 9 gallons maximum. That's 36 drops ammonium chloride. How may did you add?

There's no-one else who could have been "helpful" and added extra to "speed things up"?

The bacteria will have attached themselves to the filter media and other surfaces in the tank, with maybe a few which haven't yet attached. The water change should not have removed many, if any.

 

[Betta Love]

Just to check - are you using a special plant substrate? Some of the soil types do leach ammonia.

Dr Tim's ammonium chloride dose is 4 drops per gallon. In the UK, maybe also in the US, the volume quoted by a tank manufacturer includes the thickness of the glass and the air space above the water, so it holds less water than the quoted volume. Then there's the volume taken up by the substrate, decor, heater etc. So call it 9 gallons maximum. That's 36 drops ammonium chloride. How may did you add?

There's no-one else who could have been "helpful" and added extra to "speed things up"?

The bacteria will have attached themselves to the filter media and other surfaces in the tank, with maybe a few which haven't yet attached. The water change should not have removed many, if any.

I’m also pretty sure I added less than 36 and this is my tank now should I continue checking the ppm everyday and is my tank still considered being in the cycling process?and nope I live alone nobody else puts anything in the tank besides me

 

[Essjay]

If you get the ammonia level down to 3 ppm, the cycle should proceed from there.

Are you using the method on Dr Tim's website or ours? The one on here is easier to follow -

Cycling Your New Fresh Water Tank: Read This First!

Cycling Your First Fresh Water Tank What is Cycling and Why is it Important? Fish waste, and especially fish breathing, plus uneaten food and other organic matter breaking down in a tank all produce Ammonia. This can quickly become toxic to fish if it is allowed to build up to any measurable...

www.fishforums.net

and there's a summary method once you've worked though the explanation of the method

Simplified Fishless Cycling Instructions

So the main sticky for Fishless cycling is great but it suffers a little from information overload and that makes it hard for some to follow the instructions. I thought I would have a go at a "condensed" version. This is in no way meant to replace the original instructions but just act as a...

www.fishforums.net

 

[Betta Love]

If you get the ammonia level down to 3 ppm, the cycle should proceed from there.

Are you using the method on Dr Tim's website or ours? The one on here is easier to follow -

Cycling Your New Fresh Water Tank: Read This First!

Cycling Your First Fresh Water Tank What is Cycling and Why is it Important? Fish waste, and especially fish breathing, plus uneaten food and other organic matter breaking down in a tank all produce Ammonia. This can quickly become toxic to fish if it is allowed to build up to any measurable...

www.fishforums.net

and there's a summary method once you've worked though the explanation of the method

Simplified Fishless Cycling Instructions

So the main sticky for Fishless cycling is great but it suffers a little from information overload and that makes it hard for some to follow the instructions. I thought I would have a go at a "condensed" version. This is in no way meant to replace the original instructions but just act as a...

www.fishforums.net

I’m using Dr. Tim’s and I just tested again the Ammonia- 0.25 it’s been stuck there for awhile even before the skyrocketing happened!

 

[Essjay]

If I remember correctly, Dr Tim's method says to add ammonium chloride on certain days. This can cause ammonia to get too high - possibly the cause of your sky rocketing?

How many times have you added ammonium chloride, and what have the readings been when you tested? Did nitrite ever go up?

Since the water change has got ammonia right down, can I suggest you add another 36 drops of ammonium chloride and test for ammonia after half an hour (to allow the drops to mix in) to make sure it's not higher than 3 ppm. Then test in 2 days for ammonia and nitrite - and report back.




Just being nosey - what are your plans for the tank?

 

[Betta Love]

If I remember correctly, Dr Tim's method says to add ammonium chloride on certain days. This can cause ammonia to get too high - possibly the cause of your sky rocketing?

How many times have you added ammonium chloride, and what have the readings been when you tested? Did nitrite ever go up?

Since the water change has got ammonia right down, can I suggest you add another 36 drops of ammonium chloride and test for ammonia after half an hour (to allow the drops to mix in) to make sure it's not higher than 3 ppm. Then test in 2 days for ammonia and nitrite - and report back.




Just being nosey - what are your plans for the tank?

All right thanks!! And haha my plan is to put my Betta fish who is sadly I know a big mistake in a 3 gallon move him to the 10 gallon and than maybe if he can tolerate it add some neon tetras or corrydoras

 

[TwoTankAmin]

You should not use the directions on this site to cycle a tank if you are using Dr. Tim's One and Only. You should follow the directions on his site.

The fact that you said "’Im also pretty sure I added less than 36" suggest to me you are not sure how many you added. it is important to know things exactly. Also I would say your tank holds more like 8-8.5 gals. So that would suggest 32-34 drops. But, one way to know what you have dosed in a tank it to test it for ammonia about 5 -10 minutes after you add it. This should be ample time for it to circulate in a 10 gal. with water movement the tank from the hang on filter.

Depending what dechlor one uses, it can throw off an ammonia test if the time between the addition of the dechlor and the testing is not fairly short.

Incidentally, the fishless cycling method on this site was based loosely on Dr. Tim;s method when not using his bacterial additive. The timing and amount of the dosing is different between the two but the total amount of ammonia added on the way to getting a tank cycled is almost identical. The difference is with his method one may have to do diluted testing of nitrite while the method here, if followed exactly, will never have too much nitrtite which canstall a cycle.

 

[connorlindeman]

All right thanks!! And haha my plan is to put my Betta fish who is sadly I know a big mistake in a 3 gallon move him to the 10 gallon and than maybe if he can tolerate it add some neon tetras or corrydoras

I wouldnt add anything but the betta to the tank because they both wouldn't be truly happy

 

[TwoTankAmin]

One more thing, it should not be possible to have 6 ppm oof ammonia using Dr. Tim's ammonium chloide and bacteria and following his diurections below from his site:

The Process:

• Day 1 – dose ammonia to 2 ppm ammonia-nitrogen [NH3-N] using our ammonium chloride (1 drop per gallon [After Nov 2016 when using DrTim’s ammonium chloride use 4 drops per gallon]) [NOTE: do not expect your test kit to exactly read 2 ppm and it is not critical to get exactly 2 ppm. The key is to not add too much ammonia]. If using DrTim’s Aquatics One & Only Live Nitrifying bacteria add it now (turn skimmer, UV and ozone off and remove filter socks for 48 hours).
• Day 2 – Measure ammonia and nitrite.
• Day 3 – If ammonia and nitrite are below 1 ppm add more ammonia: four drops of our ammonium chloride per gallon (check the label).
• Days 4 & 5 – Measure ammonia and nitrite.
• Day 6 – If ammonia and nitrite are below 1 ppm add 2 ppm ammonia. Four drops of our ammonium chloride per gallon. [NOTE: since you have added the One & Only your ammonia kit will not read 2 ppm and DO NOT continue adding ammonia trying to get to 2 ppm – just add 2 ppm ammonia (4 drops per gallon of our ammonium chloride) and carry-on.
• Days 7 & 8 – Measure ammonia and nitrite. On the first measurement day (Day 2, 4, 5, 7 or 8) that BOTH ammonia and nitrite are both below 0.5 ppm (NH3-N or NO2-N) your tank is close to being cycled.
• Now start to measure ammonia and nitrite every day.
• When BOTH ammonia and nitrite are below 0.2 ppm (NH3-N or NO2-N), add another 2 ppm ammonia.
• Continue to measure every day. When you can add 2 ppm ammonia and BOTH ammonia and nitrite are below 0.2 ppm (NH3-N or NO2-N) the next day your tank is cycled – congrats! You’re done!
• Do a partial water change and add some fish.

from https://www.drtimsaquatics.com/resources/library/quick-guide-to-fishless-cycling-with-one-and-only/

You should notice that the ammonia additions are 2 ppm as nitrogen (-N). Dr. Tim uses the nitrogen scale favored by the scientific community That is why you see this above-> NH3-N or NO2-N. The -N means as nitrogen. However, most hobby test kits use the Total Ion scale. So 2ppm of NH3-N equals about 2.6 ppm on an API test kit which uses the Total Ion scale. If one follows the directions and does not add the next 2 ppm of ammonia-N until both ammonia and nitrite are under 1 ppm. The most ammonia one should ever get is less under 3 ppm -N. And that converts to less than 3.9 ppm on an API test.

Moreover, because the nitrite bacteria reproduce slower than ones for ammonia, the ammonia will further under 1 ppm than the nitrite is when they are both coming down and both under 1 ppm. So, this means it is even more impossible to get 6 ppm of ammonia in a tank if done according to the directions quoted above.

For the curious, to convert from the notrogen scale to the Total ion scale Multiply the nitrogen scale reading by the blow:

Ammonia NH3-N x 1.2189 to get the Total Ion number
Ammonium NH4-N x 1.28786 to get the Total Ion number
Nitrite NO2-N x 3.28443 to get the Total Ion number
Nitrate NO3-N x 4.42664 to get the Total Ion number

What most test kits measure is Total ammonia which is the sum of NH3 and NH4. Most ammoni in water is in the form of NH4. I use 1.28 as the conversion factor for total ammonia. 2 ppm -N x 1.28 = 2.56 and I round that to 2.6. Which is why I said "about" above.

 

[Betta Love]

Hey guys thank you all for the advice I have been taking all the advice and have been testing my tank everyday and it has been like this for awhile any advice or just continue doing what I’m doing??